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Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)


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the shadow the shadow

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 02:49 AM #36 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

I've found that you can never have enough gold. Once you have purchased all the spells you need, and unlocked all the special skills, you can purchase unlimited knowledge brews from Silverlocke, and upgrade items in Lorelei and Blackcrag.

Nobear Nobear

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 08:43 AM #37 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Yeah I think I'm about at that point. Speaking of knowledge brews, I seem to remember some vendors offering them cheaper than Silverlocke, but is she the only one with unlimited quantity?

Earth Empires Earth Empires

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 10:26 AM #38 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Bit odd that no walkthroughs or Rache's shop-list mention him.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 10:33 AM #39 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Silverlocke is in Avernum 3, in Upper Exile.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Ishad Nha Ishad Nha

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 12:28 AM #40 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

In A3 she sells out of Knowledge Brews soon enough, I don't know how many she may have.

Jerakeen Jerakeen

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 02:41 AM #41 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

View PostIshad Nha, on 24 February 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

In A3 she sells out of Knowledge Brews soon enough, I don't know how many she may have.
But she will restock if you buy her whole stock. This gets expensive, obviously.

Earth Empires Earth Empires

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:56 AM #42 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Rache's site and walkthroughs neglect to mention about Silverlocke's existence.

nikki. nikki.

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 10:01 AM #43 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

View PostEarth Empires, on 24 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Rache's site and walkthroughs neglect to mention about Silverlocke's existence.

Uh, Rache's site (which is currently hosted by Harehunter) definitely does mention Silverlocke. This map of Upper Avernum has Silverlocke's hut listed as number 38.

Earth Empires Earth Empires

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 10:27 AM #44 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

View Postnikki., on 24 February 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Uh, Rache's site (which is currently hosted by Harehunter) definitely does mention Silverlocke. This map of Upper Avernum has Silverlocke's hut listed as number 38.

but not in stores-section http://rachea3.tripo...ernum3/id7.html which is 1st in google's results when searching avernum 3 shops (nor does hh's version http://www.harehunte.../Maps1/id7.html).

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 01:44 PM #45 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Earth Empires, please just stop.

I know that you are just trying to be helpful.  However, you frequently end up inserting factually incorrect information into game board threads.  Then we have this whole digression where you argue with people about it.  This is the same thing that happened when you mixed up the chapter 2 rapids with the Waterfall Warrens.

Ultimately, what this means for Spiderweb's customers is that they have to wade through a whole lot of inaccurate information and pointless arguing in order to find what they are looking for.

You have previously been asked not to act as an "information supplier" in game board threads, unless you are 100% sure about the information you are supplying.  So, if you don't have the information without using google or consulting a walkthrough, please just let it go.  Let somebody else answer the question or make the correction.

You have also been asked to make legible posts.  Although I recognize and appreciate that you have been making an effort here, it continues to be a problem.

Altogether, this means that you have a problem with spam posts: a large number of posts that -- while they don't hurt anyone -- must be waded through in order to get to posts with accurate, legible, and/or on-topic content.

For that reason, Earth Empires, I am giving you an official warning as a moderator.  Please stop making posts that:
- are factually inaccurate,
- are especially difficult to read,
- are off-topic/spam.

No one is perfect, but you need to do a better job of meeting these standards, given that you are a frequent poster.  Thank you.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Earth Empires Earth Empires

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:56 AM #46 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

I made my post based on Rache's stores-list and walkthroughs.

Lilith Lilith

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 02:22 PM #47 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

View PostEarth Empires, on 26 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

I made my post based on Rache's stores-list and walkthroughs.

No matter what the source of your information was, you were wrong. You've been warned in the past not to try and give out information that you're not sure about, because posting misleading advice has been a recurring problem for you. In future, I'd strongly recommend that you don't post information unless you've personally confirmed it by playing the game yourself.

Nobear Nobear

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 11:00 AM #48 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Nature Lore: 19 NL is enough until I reached one cache in NW Valorim near the quarantine border, and one in NE Valorim north of Tevrono that I couldn't uncover.

Update: Raised NL to 22 and that was enough for the NE cache (near the guy who sells Xian's Vest), and the one near the northern Church of the Divine Lucre camp. I'll test the NW one later.

Vahnatai Lore: I also think it was probably way overkill to buy 3X4 VL, because I just now destroyed the golems and met the empress, and my characters all got 5 VL just from quests and books, so 8x4 = 32 total. I'm guessing the required VL number listed in the OP is a total. I don't know if you can get any VL without first having some small number of points, but I started a Torment playthrough and I'm being more thrifty now.

Pathfinder: When my party had 5X4 Pathfinder, people were still taking damage sometimes. I trained just one point more for everyone (6X4 = 24 total) and they avoid all damage now. However, I am not entirely sure whether this is entirely due to the Pathfinder, or maybe partly level based, or partly based on the fact all my characters have fairly high resistances, and fairly high Hardiness to counter encumbrance.

Other observations: Things are going well for my party on Hard, which has a Slith fighter, two nephil mage/priests, and Hsska the priest, the only non-custom. The customs have Sickness Prone, the mages and Hsska have Natural Mage (I made him a mage/priest too), and the fighter has Fast on Feet. There are enough AP items at this point in the game to give my fighter extra APs and two of my casters start the fight with 6 APs. The characters are all in their 40s now. There are relatively few fights where multiple characters are taking heavy melee or single target spell damage, it seems, compared to other Spiderweb games (i.e. fewer ambushes, or maybe I'm just playing better). I did have to reload several times for the outdoor encounter with several Dark Wyrms, because a different character kept starting in the front, and I had to use 2-3 invulnerability potions for my fighter. Other stuff I'd think would be hard (lorewise) is generally a breeze, like the golems. My casters have so much magic bonus between Natural Mage, items, spell skill and Magery that Ice Lances often hits as hard as Fireblast, with only Arcane Blast pumping substantially higher numbers. I'm talking maybe 80s with Ice Lances, 80s to 100s with Lightning or Fireblast, and 140s+ with Arcane Blast against high level enemies like golems that aren't too resistant.

For my new (Torment) playthrough: I see there is quite a lot to spend gold on after all, like Magery and Parry skill. This time I'm going to try to max all the non-trainable special skills before buying Silverlocke's Knowledge Brews. I will keep my eye out, however, and take special note of those alchemists who sell Knowledge Brews for cheaper (even if in smaller quantity). My goal is to avoid any exploits (like the infinite item merchant) or use of the character editor, which I have been good about so far in my Hard playthrough. I also want to end up with my whole party composed of the NPCs who join, if I unlock them at convenient times in a natural way. I'm thinking the archer will not take Natural Mage, but become an Archer/Priest/Tool User. The energy restore mind crystal can go to him later.

mikeprichard mikeprichard

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:57 PM #49 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

nobear - just checking in for a bit; thanks for continuing to post the results of your testing! Few points:

Nature Lore - it sounds like you've tested every single cache in the game except for the one way in the NW near the border wall; if you test that one and post the final result (I'm thinking it will either be your existing 22 requirement or maybe 23/24), I'll update the OP.

Vahnatai Lore - the "30" estimated total in the OP is for Rune Reading, not Vahnatai Lore (although I confirmed in-game that VL points do add to the displayed Rune Reading total in the character sheet), so I have no idea on that one. It looks like the VL requirements may remain a mystery for now.

Pathfinder - I didn't do any serious testing of this myself, but Hardiness and resistances don't have anything at all to do with the effects of Pathfinder (which only affects whether you take damage when walking over damage terrain). Just don't want you wasting time trying to factor those in to the Pathfinder effects somehow. But here's a suggested test: with 24 total Pathfinder, try walking over lava for a few minutes - just make sure you don't use a lava area with periodic "explosions" like the giants' caves, as those aren't negated by Pathfinder. If you never take any damage after doing that, I think we can confirm your number.

Cheers!

Nobear Nobear

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:16 AM #50 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

Sorry for being absent for so long. I've been busy with schoolwork, so I've played very little lately.

Nature Lore: It wasn't all the caches, because I hadn't been in Footracer Province yet. Now on my Hard (Tough) game I have cleared the area around the Keep of Tinraya, and gotten as far as the final stone circle with the Haakai and Mung Demons. I still haven't gotten around to that NW cache outside Footracer Province.

Vahnatai Lore: Through another book/encounter/whatever, I am up to to a ridiculous 9X4 = 36 VL. That means, so far, I have had 6 in-game experiences grant VL to all my characters. I'll see how much, if any, VL needs to be bought on my Torment game.

Pathfinder: I have been walking over lava left and right, and all other dangerous terrain. Not a single incident of getting hurt so far with 6X4 = 24 Pathfinder. I think it's safe to confirm it as all you need for any practical intents.

I wrote in another thread that Torment didn't seem to increase the difficulty for me, and I've almost defeated the slimes in that play through. I don't know if this is a bug with my version of A3, or maybe with my particular save file, or if the Torment difference in A3 is supposed to be very minor compared to other Avernums.

Cheers!

Nobear Nobear

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 08:43 AM #51 Avernum 3 - Skills FAQ (Rune Reading, Nature Lore, Tool Use/Unlock Doors, Barter)

I have now beat the game on "Torment," which I believe incorrectly plays as Tough in the latest GoG version of A3. The main thing I can add is that, if you find and include all of the NPCs into your party, the game will be trivial given this difficulty bug, and you will be well above any utility skill threshold except for Potion Making, which you can bring to 20 easily on Carol. After I hit 20 potion making, I never failed making a Knowledge Brew, and it's worth it IMHO to take out this annoyance, considering the amount of Knowledge Brews you can make with just the herbs you naturally come across.

If you properly time the turn-ins of quests and the activation of things that grant special skills like Vahnatai Lore, holding off until you've brought on all four NPCs (or, alternately, if you never switch out the characters you start with), you also won't need to purchase any Vahnatai Lore at all.

This all considered, I can see why a proper min-max guide was never made before for A3: it's not challenging enough in its current iteration with a full party of the strongest characters. Hopefully the remake will bring back a proper challenge.

That said, this guide is good for people who want to play a custom party. Thanks for making it Mikus!




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