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Critical hit & Luck mechanics


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Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 06:33 AM #1 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

Based on some small scale testing, I hypothesize the following about critical hit mechanics:

1. There is no check for critical hits (and thus you can never get them) unless you have a specific bonus from an item or skill (Lethal Blow).

2. If you DO get a check, you receive a bonus of 5% (as stated in docs) plus 0.5% per experience level, in addition to the chances from items (longbows, spears) or skills.

3. I'm not sure if attack-specific "critical damage" (from a broadsword, for example) is an addition to the critical hit chance, or a separate check.  I think it's the latter.  (Also I think that doubles damage, whereas crits just do 150%, but that's worth checking.)

4. Luck has zero impact on critical hit chance.
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Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 07:31 AM #2 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

ALSO based on small scale testing (more always appreciated), it looks like Luck may be contributing +1% to damage per point.  Sweet!
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Hume Hume

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:17 AM #3 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

You mean a 30 level character has a hidden critical chance of 20% that can be unlocked by Lethal blow skill or items giving critical attack chance?
So lethal blow does have 3% critical chance. It is great to have 1 level, so you have over 20% critical chance late in game but more than that is not particularly worthy?

If luck also gives 1% damage, it is not bad. When you have surplus points near the end of game, luck is quite handy that it works for everyone and does not need require other skills to invest.

Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:22 AM #4 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

Yup.  Lethal Blow is probably still pointless for casters though, because you can unlock the crit chance simply by equipping a longbow. :p

Luck does look to be an OK skill now, probably on par with Parry.
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EarthPhantomTS EarthPhantomTS

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:09 PM #5 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

View PostRefugees from Menzoberranzan, on 02 February 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

Based on some small scale testing, I hypothesize the following about critical hit mechanics:

1. There is no check for critical hits (and thus you can never get them) unless you have a specific bonus from an item or skill (Lethal Blow).

Yeah, right.  In the two hours and two levels I played my most recent save, I paid attention to this and saw every one of my characters get a critical hit at least once.  None of them have anything like Lethal Blow or Longbows either (I literally just started).  So I'm not sure why you say this.  Maybe it changed between the Mac and PC versions?  If so, then what about Luck?  Did that change?  Was this a bug in the original release that was fixed later?  That'd be my guess at this point.

I mean, I know I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but when this horse might come with some sort of Luck-nerfing disease (seeing as I can't really say I trust what you said about Luck giving a 1% boost to all damage types per point anymore), well...

Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:35 PM #6 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

That's a pretty smugly stated reaction to a post from two years ago that was explicitly caveated as a hypothesis based only on "small scale testing."  However, your data is still appreciated.

It would be helpful if you could share what your characters do have.  It seems unlikely that we had identical setups, if you easily saw crits from all your PCs in playtime when you weren't specifically trying to achieve them, whereas direct testing (with extraneous stats and items controlled for) was unable to produce a single crit.  So it seems possible that something else is triggering the crit check that one or both of us are not aware contributes to crits.  Useful info would be:

For each character (since they all got crits):
- List of skills (including any points from equipped items)
- List of traits
- All equipped weapons (including missile, if any)
- Double checking that there is no misc. armor equipped with a "crit chance" ability (though that does seem unlikely if you are that early on)
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:40 PM #7 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

ADDENDUM: You just said you were playing my Remix mod, which suggests you are playing A:EFTP.  This thread was about A2:CS.  There's a good chance they have the same mechanics, but you never know.  (Especially since hit chance mechanics *did* change in A2:CS.)
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EarthPhantomTS EarthPhantomTS

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:55 AM #8 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

View PostRefugees from Menzoberranzan, on 24 February 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

That's a pretty smugly stated reaction to a post from two years ago that was explicitly caveated as a hypothesis based only on "small scale testing."  However, your data is still appreciated.

It would be helpful if you could share what your characters do have.  It seems unlikely that we had identical setups, if you easily saw crits from all your PCs in playtime when you weren't specifically trying to achieve them, whereas direct testing (with extraneous stats and items controlled for) was unable to produce a single crit.  So it seems possible that something else is triggering the crit check that one or both of us are not aware contributes to crits.  Useful info would be:

For each character (since they all got crits):
- List of skills (including any points from equipped items)
- List of traits
- All equipped weapons (including missile, if any)
- Double checking that there is no misc. armor equipped with a "crit chance" ability (though that does seem unlikely if you are that early on)

View PostRefugees from Menzoberranzan, on 24 February 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

ADDENDUM: You just said you were playing my Remix mod, which suggests you are playing A:EFTP.  This thread was about A2:CS.  There's a good chance they have the same mechanics, but you never know.  (Especially since hit chance mechanics *did* change in A2:CS.)

I'll doublecheck my stuff later, but for now, let me just say I apologize for the tone in my previous post (yeah, it was kinda rude, huh?), but I was definitely playing Crystal Souls when I noticed that.  I just happened to have a Remix mod playthrough running parallel to that.

EarthPhantomTS EarthPhantomTS

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:39 PM #9 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

Another thing I want to say on this: I'm playing the PC version (Steam copy).  You're a Mac user, right, Slartifer?  I'm wondering if this is a difference between the two versions; like, since the Mac version was probably first, it might have some bugs or oddities that would've been ironed out for the PC/iOS/whatever release.  Honestly, it always struck me as weird, how you reported crits working, so maybe it was a bug?

I'm just speculating now, and I'm no good at these things.  Just...this is something that I started to wonder.

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:55 PM #10 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

In the past there have been differences in how the Mac and Windows versions got updated to fix bugs, but Jeff has gotten better.

However during Mac beta testing I've seen things that got fixed where there were abilities occurring more often than they should at their skill level or other mistakes. It seems that occasionally a sign error or other mistake gets coded and not caught.
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Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:41 PM #11 Critical hit & Luck mechanics

View PostEarthPhantomTS, on 27 February 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

Another thing I want to say on this: I'm playing the PC version (Steam copy).  You're a Mac user, right, Slartifer?  I'm wondering if this is a difference between the two versions...
Actually, I'm not anymore.  I was for A:EFTP, but my A2:CS testing was on PC.

It's possible this kind of thing could be a platform difference when that exists, but I don't think it's very likely.  Most past discrepancies came from the era when Jeff released the Mac version first, then did separate PC testing, then released that version -- so it naturally had extra fixes and changes that didn't always make their way back to Mac.  Now the releases are much closer together.  The only known recent discrepancy -- the cost of training thing in A:EFTP -- was fairly quickly changed in the next version number of the Mac version.

Also -- thanks for your reply; no worries re word choice.  I am still interested in more details on what you experienced, since it is likely it will point to some other factor that can cause crits that we may not be aware of.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

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