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A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)


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Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:23 PM #1 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Trainers: (some information may have changed since I first recorded it)

Skills:
Fort Draco - Boris - at party level 8 - Hardiness (1260c), Blademaster (1620c), First Aid (900c)

Gunston Household - Tor - QUEST - Kill Salamanders -  can now teach Cave Lore (1100c)

Formello
Amber (trainer)
-- Bows (1080c), Thrown weapons (1080c), Dual Wielding (1620c)

-- magi clearance - Riposte (2160c), Parry ( 2160c)

Caius - Luck (2500c)
Oglai - Vaina-Te (trainer) after returning a Crystal Soul - Melee Weapons (1760c), Thrown Weapons (1320c), Hardiness (1540c)
Mancuso - Tokor-Te- trains after Quest - Quick Action (1650c), Gymnastics (1320c)
Silvar - Oss-Ess - Pole weapons (1440c), Hardiness (1260c)
Solberg - crown clearance - Spellcraft (2200c)
Kevtar - near Fort Remote - Parry (1350c), Quick Action (1350c), Sharpshooter (1080c)
Harston - Renee the Sage - First Aid (900c), Cave Lore (1100c)

Magic Spells:
Fort Draco - Boris - spells ( bolt of fire to haste)
Formello - Miles - spells (bolt of fire to spray acid)
Egli - Seno - (need spirit prism to learn spells) - Capture Soul and Simulacrum
Mancuso - Tokor-Te- trains after Quest - spells (bolt of fire to minor summons)
Tower of Magi
-- Kayannan - spells (bolt of tire to cloak of blades) (expensive)
-- X - spell trainer at Magi Clearance) - (fire blast to arcane blow) (utterly ridiculous)
Kosdad- west of Fort Dunvo - spells (slow to blink) (slightly expensive)
Fort Dranlon - Postlethwaite - spells (haste to summon aid) (extreme cheap)
Solberg - crown clearance - spells (minor summon to fireblast) (slightly expensive)

Priest Rituals:
Fort Draco - Boris - Rituals (minor heal to war blessing)
Formello - Caius - Rituals (minor heal to move mountains)
Tower of Magi - Mother Clarisse - rituals (minor heal to ward of steel )(exorbitant)
Mertis - Rhoads - rituals (smite to call the storm, divine fire) (slightly expensive)
Fort Dranlon - Caitlan - rituals (unshackle mind to sanctification ritual) (very reasonable)
Almaria - Miranda - rituals (smite to call the storm, divine fire) (slightly expensive)
The Castle - Kristen - rituals (unshackle mind to return life) (slightly expensive)
Dharmon- Sarah - rituals (mass healing to divine host) (slightly expensive)
Gnass - Pathass - if Slith in party - rituals (unshackle mind to return life) (very reasonable)
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

darint darint

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 05:44 PM #2 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

A few omissions:
Far-Fletch Clan (after curing neph village): Bows and Sharpshooter (pretty average)
Almaria - Julio: Dual Wielding and Lethal Blow (expensive)
Mage spells:
Erika: Slow to Arcane Blow (exorbitant)
Fort Remote - Thompson: Minor Summon to Arcane Blow (exorbitant)

Juan Carlo Juan Carlo

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:22 PM #3 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Is there still a point at which you can no longer train in certain skills?

I'm used to the older Avernums where you could power game by not putting points into certain skills until you train them up first....but I just realized that Avernum 2 forces you to spend all your skill points on level up.  So you can no longer hoarde skill points until you've trained in a certain area.

So what's the best way to use trainers?  Does it still make sense to hold out on increasing certain skills until you train? Or are they more just to make your characters more well rounded and buy "group" skills like lore and whatnot?

Obviously, it would make sense to train in as many skills as possible first, before leveling them, if there is a cap on training levels.  But at the same time, since you have to spend points every level up, there might be a point of diminishing returns if you are putting all of your points in lower level skills while waiting for the trainers.

Waiting to level up at all might work I guess, but I'm not so masochistic that I'd tackle the game without leveling up at all until post trainers.

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:28 PM #4 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Trainers are good for group skills like Cave Lore and First Aid.  There is no trainer for Arcane Lore or Tool Use.

Otherwise I use them for weapon skills for Mages and Priests so they can get battle disciplines for adrenaline rush.   Parry and Hardiness for Mages and Priests.

Also getting the 11th and 12th points for fighters after they get to 10 from skill points above the first tier weapon skills.  It doesn't matter when you get them for weapon skills.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

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Juan Carlo Juan Carlo

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:32 PM #5 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View PostRandomizer, on 15 January 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Also getting the 11th and 12th points for fighters after they get to 10 from skill points above the first tier weapon skills.  It doesn't matter when you get them for weapon skills.

Ah, OK.  That's cool.

Hexcel Hexcel

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:41 PM #6 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

So are there no trainers for Mage Spell and Priest Spell (the skills)?

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:50 PM #7 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Solberg trains Spellcraft, but no one gives Mage and Priest spell (the skills).

Jeff cut back on trainable skills and several are taught at more than one location.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

TriRodent TriRodent

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:24 PM #8 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

You can get a point of spellcraft as well from the old drake in the SW corner of the Scree Pits for 2000gp (for the entire party)

Mechalibur Mechalibur

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 12:42 PM #9 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Hm, so no resistance trainer this time around? That kinda sucks.

For what it's worth, there are also a few locations that give a flat +1 to everyone's skills. They're not trainers, but they're worth knowing about since they can get you over the 10 maximum (stacking with trainers)

If you have graymold salve, a drake in the Scree Pits will give your whole party +1 spellcraft for 2,000gp

In the NE lava pits in the Vahnatai lands (the place where you get the fiery sword), there's a building where you can find a bug husk, and a building with an altar where you can place a bug husk (the second altar requires the Orb of Thralni). Go back and forth 3 times, and the whole party gets hardiness +1

In the Vahnatai Castle, there's a green crystal in a secret room. If you have a total of 13 Arcane Lore (Vahnatai lore doesn't help with this), then the whole party gets resistance +1

In the Empire Archives, there is a "Cleaning Room" that requires 15 tool use. Whole party gets +1 hardiness.

(Courtesy of Lilith): On the top floor of Ornotha Ziggurat, in the Southeast section, there is a room with two chairs. The game will ask if you sit on them. If you do, everyone gets +1 magical efficiency.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 10:52 PM #10 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Far-Fletched clan training is 840 for each.  Nice price.
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Posted 21 January 2015 - 02:57 PM #11 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Sort of topic-related: just wanted to confirm that, as in A:EFTP, you can get a maximum of 63 skill points (5 at level 1 + (2x29) through level 30) and 16 traits (not sure how those distribute?) at max level for human characters. If not, what are the new numbers for A2:CS? Thanks!

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 03:02 PM #12 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

63 skill points and 24 traits (16 for non-humans).  Just as previously, new skill points and stat increases roll in at levels 35, 40, etc., so if you are bored enough to get there, you can technically get more.
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"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 03:36 PM #13 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Woah, 24 for human traits? Is that a change from A:EFTP, and would you mind explaining how those new trait points work out level-wise?

And I forgot about the extra skills/stats every 5 levels after 30, thanks.

EDIT: OK, I see humans now get a bonus trait every 4 levels. IIRC, A:EFTP the older Avernums instead gave them no XP penalty but no special advantages, while giving nephils/sliths XP penalties to balance those races' special advantages. I think I like the new race system better - each race has advantages, but no "penalties."

Hexcel Hexcel

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:35 PM #14 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

You couldn't pick nephils or sliths in A:EftP, just humans. In A2:CS, non-humans are essentially the same as EftP characters with some bonuses, while humans now get more traits.

The xp penalty stuff are in the original avernum games.

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:56 PM #15 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Thanks, Hexcel - I was confusing the re-re-makes with the re-makes.

Vee Vee

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:38 PM #16 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Renee in Harston teaches 1st Aid for 1100cc. Unless there's a quest which reduces the rate? If so, that would be a handy note.

Unawares Unawares

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 11:22 PM #17 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View PostSlartibus, on 21 January 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

63 skill points and 24 traits (16 for non-humans).  Just as previously, new skill points and stat increases roll in at levels 35, 40, etc., so if you are bored enough to get there, you can technically get more.

After level 30, is it one stat point and two skill points every five levels?

TriRodent TriRodent

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 07:09 AM #18 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View PostUnawares, on 21 January 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

After level 30, is it one stat point and two skill points every five levels?

No.  You continue to get your stat point every level (rotating among the four stats as usual) but only get the 2 skill points on the 5th (35, 40, etc)

Languorous_Maiar Languorous_Maiar

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 07:19 AM #19 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Remember that 40 is maximum value for attributes, unless it was changed in A:CS.

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 07:30 AM #20 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

It appears to be 50 now.
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Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:41 PM #21 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View PostRandomizer, on 15 January 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:


Also getting the 11th and 12th points for fighters after they get to 10 from skill points above the first tier weapon skills.  It doesn't matter when you get them for weapon skills.
So to clarify, you mean that you can only get the 11th and 12th points for skills like hardiness, dual-wielding, blademaster, etc. (everything but the weapon skills) if you use the trainers AFTER reaching 10 in those skills through training using skill points? And that you can use trainers for the weapon skills before reaching 10 and still reach 11 or 12 after putting enough skill points in? Thanks in advance.

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:14 PM #22 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

I have to test it, but the skill tree was set up in A:EftP that if you used the trainers before getting to level 10, then you couldn't raise the skills higher.  This may have been fixed.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

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Lilith Lilith

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:15 PM #23 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View Postjimbob, on 23 January 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

So to clarify, you mean that you can only get the 11th and 12th points for skills like hardiness, dual-wielding, blademaster, etc. (everything but the weapon skills) if you use the trainers AFTER reaching 10 in those skills through training using skill points?

Correct.

Quote

And that you can use trainers for the weapon skills before reaching 10 and still reach 11 or 12 after putting enough skill points in? Thanks in advance.

Also correct. The bottom-tier weapon and magic skills don't have a cap at 10 like other skills do: you can raise them to 20 or 30 if you really want to.

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:31 PM #24 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View Postjimbob, on 23 January 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

So to clarify, you mean that you can only get the 11th and 12th points for skills like hardiness, dual-wielding, blademaster, etc. (everything but the weapon skills) if you use the trainers AFTER reaching 10 in those skills through training using skill points? And that you can use trainers for the weapon skills before reaching 10 and still reach 11 or 12 after putting enough skill points in? Thanks in advance.

Yeah, but hardiness can go to 14, and spellcraft can go to 13 if you get the party bonuses (I posted above where you can get those).

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:35 PM #25 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

So are the party bonuses affected by the current stat value (do the stats have to be maxed already for the party bonus to push them above the max)?

mikeprichard mikeprichard

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:50 PM #26 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View PostRandomizer, on 23 January 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

I have to test it, but the skill tree was set up in A:EftP that if you used the trainers before getting to level 10, then you couldn't raise the skills higher.  This may have been fixed.

I was also wondering if it still worked this way in A2:CS. I hope not, but please let us know if you do test it out!

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:12 PM #27 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Just tested, still the same with EftP. It's still good, innit? You can put points in skill from the get go and get the additional +2 from trainers, yeah?
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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:15 PM #28 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Darn, bad news. It's not a huge problem if you plan for it, but if you train your two points before you "max" the skill (at 10 for most skills), you'll only be able to get the skill to 10, not 12... which is very annoying for us min-maxers. ;)

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:20 PM #29 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

I'm am really glad I've grown more relaxed about min-maxing than I used to be - in the past, I'd have been really frustrated to find out some of these things...

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:22 PM #30 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

This is why I plan every skill, trait, and training point for each party member before I start a playthrough. Totally not obsessive at all.

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 05:38 AM #31 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

I don't think it's so bad.  What's bad was when you had to train BEFORE putting any points in a skill.  Now this just means you stop and think if you're about to train a skill that's below 10.
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Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:05 AM #32 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

The list appears to leave out the Far-Fletch Clan (a nephil village southwest of Mertis) who give training in Bows and Sharpshooter for 840 each. I think they only serve you after you help the other nephil village (the one southeast of Mertis) by giving them a bunch graymold (actual graymold, as I recall, NOT graymold salve).

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"Per usual, Triumph said it better." - Slarty


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Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:07 AM #33 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Yes, the Far-Fletch Clan and several other trainers are listed in darint's post (just below the OP) - not sure if they're going to get added to the OP.

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 02:28 PM #34 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

View PostMechalibur, on 18 January 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

For what it's worth, there are also a few locations that give a flat +1 to everyone's skills. They're not trainers, but they're worth knowing about since they can get you over the 10 maximum (stacking with trainers)

Found one more of these: on the top level of Ornotha Ziggurat, in the southeastern quadrant of the level, there's a room with two chairs. Entering the room will give you the option to sit down: if you do, the party will gain +1 Magical Efficiency.

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 06:47 PM #35 A:CS - Trainers (SPOILERS)

Munchkiny/slightly lazy question (I haven't yet reached the Great Cave/Scree Pits): I'd like to add only 7 points to Spellcraft from level-up points, get the 8th point from the drake, and buy 2 more points from Solberg for 10 total. Is this possible? Or does the drake's point count as one of the "bought" points (which would allow me to then buy only 1 more point from Solberg)?




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