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I'm going to say this here, now

avernum 2 whine

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Makris Makris

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:21 PM #1 I'm going to say this here, now

I suddenly remembered that avernum 2 remake was apparently coming out sooner or later, so I decided to play the original avernum 2. Unfortunately I have lost it since I lost my computer and all the codes and stuff. Only steam games remained, like avadons and avernum 1 remake. I guess I'l buy it again.

I'm going to say this... Geneforge engine (or whatever it is called) games have horrible combat. It's just not fun, it quickly feels repetitive. In A2 and A3 you can have epic summon wars where my summons summon more monsters and enemy summons as well. In geneforge engine games summons felt always useless (well excluding actual geneforge games, obviously). I can remember fireblast being scary and powerful. I actually consider A2 & A3 spells better looking than the ones in later games and I'm not some low level graphics fan.

I am not going to buy/play A2 remake. I haven't played it yet, obviously, but based on the first remake, original will most likely be the superior game to me. I don't know if I will buy other new spiderweb games if they have the same boring combat. There are the only games where I want combat to be easy because then it will end faster. In the older avernum games I loved difficult fights.



Random rant: I hate it when some games throw me a ton of named items that I will soon throw away (or sell) because random nameless items are soon better. Later I will get another ton of worthless named items that will soon be obsolete again.

Jerakeen Jerakeen

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:33 PM #2 I'm going to say this here, now

Welcome to the boards, Makris! I would recommend leaving your sanity at the door, but I suspect it's already too late. :grin:

If by "Geneforge engine" you mean the engine used in Avernums 4-6, I agree that the combat there got less interesting, though 5 and 6 were a little better than 4. I wouldn't really call it a Geneforge engine, though; the similarities are superficial.

Have you played the A:EFTP (the A1 remake)? If you have, you must have seen that it's actually pretty true to the original in terms of engine and feel. Getting the second and third levels of spells is actually meaningful again, for example. The skill system is quite different than any previous Avernum game; some people like it, some don't.

But one thing the combat is not is boring, especially on the higher difficulties. I've played through several times with different parties, and the same tactics definitely do not work for all of them.

I think we can expect more of the same, and likely even better (One of our members posted some cool mods that he made and Jeff was so impressed that he said he'd incorporate some of them into the next game! Go Slarty!) in the next installment. But you can always just download the demo and see what you think.

Makris Makris

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:31 PM #3 I'm going to say this here, now

Well, I did say only the steam games remained and listed avernum 1 remake. I never played original A1 since I played A2 first and the interface in A1 felt horrible after that. Anyway, the A1 remake was a lot better than 4-6 to me because of the travelling.

I did not like combat in A1 remake and it felt the same as other games like it. I'm not saying it was always easy on hardest difficulty but I'm saying I found the combat so dull I wish it had been easy. Actually, I wanted to completely bypass it. Obviously it wouldn't be much of a game if combat was removed and I would not have played it. I'm not even fully sure why the combat is so boring. Sure, summons are dull and almost useless and it was repititive but it's not like earlier games had super diverse combat either.

I tested A2 demo briefly after finishing A1 remake, to see if A2 really was so much better to me or if I remembered wrong. But I was right.

I don't like the movement either, though it's nice to be able to click far away so travelling is less pain in the ass. However, I never disliked travelling too much in A2. Well except maybe when I messed up at the waterfalls. Buttons are too easy to find, they don't feel like "secrets" anymore. Remember those "mazes" in the world map? A location surrounded by lots of trees or something and you wonder if it's possible to get there or not and if there is something hidden. In the A1 remake, I just click there and there my characters go, automatically navigating through the trees.

I also feel like the older games had better atmosphere, mostly at least. Those fireblasts or whatever the spell was called were scary. New spells are dull and ugly.



One more thing. I want to kick the demonic person's butt who thought it was a good idea to add uranium to Avernum 2. I had it in my bag for most of the game, making me sick and thus causing those annoying sounds. I think it was unidentified or something. My friend always thought the sound was funny. He was also there when I finally found out what caused it. He kept reminding me of it years and years later, even mimicing the annoying sound. :)

Jerakeen Jerakeen

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 06:45 AM #4 I'm going to say this here, now

Well, I'm not sure what would constitute interesting combat for you. Summoned creatures summoning more creatures certainly clogged up the battlefield, but I wouldn't say it was particularly exciting waiting for 30 other critters to act before I could take my turn. I could wish that we weren't limited to just one pet at a time, but I understand the reason for it.

I agree with you about the secret doors, but with the advent of point-and-click travel, wall-bumping just isn't practical anymore.

Makris Makris

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:35 PM #5 I'm going to say this here, now

It's not just the summons, obviously. I can't really say for sure what it is, maybe it's just the small things. Summons and ugly magic are maybe the only ones I can come up with. I don't know why the combat feels more repititive.





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