Where's the epic battles and wars?

[DeltanAmbassador]

I'm a hack n slash fan and love the fighting. To me, and this is just me, a scenario with a lot of hunting for NPCs and talking is gonna have me quitting it in search of some straight foward quests of 'go kill this guy cuz he's bad.' Which scenarios, of any difficulty, are like the opening fight scene in Falling Stars more or less throughout but without the timer-based party wipe (in case you were having too much fun I guess.) Would prefer ones without any party wipes at all which to me are indications of sadistic personality disorders. We're just gonna restore or restart from last save so why bother? Don't mind battles with the legions from hell that result in wipes, but ones where there's no defense are ridiculous.

 

So far having checked several, my faves are Rubacus (for the unlimited encounters Trog fight, and general plethora of wandering monster battles,) and Shadow of the Stranger for the (so far) one pretty decent battle with Empire forces (though once the 2 wizards are down it's pretty easy being a straight melee.)

 

What I'd make if I could (and looking at the scenario editor I don't think that's gonna happen any time soon being clueless) would be massive defender-like missions where you're a garrison force defending some location and massive wave after wave of enemies attack your position. No timers, no instan-wipes, just really tough custom monsters and precious little recovery time if any. Falling Stars opening battle without the wipe timer in other words.

[Tonweya]

If you really want to challenge yourself, try Stareye's "Spy's Quest". I'd advise you begin with a lot of patience. It begins rather "Normally", but becomes really difficult, if not impossible by the ending.

He advertises it as probably the most difficult Scenario ever made and that he feels that "E-3" was too small.

However, I must warn you that there are a couple of 'Flaws'. If you play this Scenario and hit a "Snag", post it and I'll tell you what I found.

I'm still watching this board and expect to outlast the W-98 you spoke of in the other post. ;^}

me

[DeltanAmbassador]

Something I've noticed in many user-made scenarios is the lack of wandering monsters. Some maps have them, most don't. FS has a few Rokka and those blobby tank things wandering around but there's precious few. Unless you like cave crawls, most of these maps don't have the hack n slash heavy feel of the stock maps or Exile 3. "Shadow of the Stranger" has the one 'enemy camp' fight, but even that's kinda disappointing as after so many have been killed, they vanish. Have considered maybe E4's just not a heavy combat game, but thinking of the stock missions it absolutely is. There's thus no legit reason not to have lots more random encounters and grinding in user-made scenarios. It's not a puzzle-solving/conversation game, it's a combat game. So let's get more combat in these things.

 

I've tried making my own, but the map maker thing is beyond me. I've never had a talent for coding, and that thing seems to assume you do. Alas. Thought I had a brilliant idea of modding existing maps finding the little settings for various combat but gee wiz guys, passwording your maps? Are you selling these things somewhere? If not, loose the passwords. What's gonna happen, someone makes a map better than you do tweaking things a bit? I'm all for art and preserving it, but the nature of computer code is customization. I'd LOVE to tweak FS's opening sequence removing the timer and instant-death thing so you can actually fight it. That'd have easily been the best combat sequence in the whole game of any map, but noooo, put a silly timer on it so we can run away and spend our time talking.

[Lilith]

Something I've noticed in many user-made scenarios is the lack of wandering monsters. Some maps have them, most don't. FS has a few Rokka and those blobby tank things wandering around but there's precious few. Unless you like cave crawls, most of these maps don't have the hack n slash heavy feel of the stock maps or Exile 3. "Shadow of the Stranger" has the one 'enemy camp' fight, but even that's kinda disappointing as after so many have been killed, they vanish. Have considered maybe E4's just not a heavy combat game, but thinking of the stock missions it absolutely is. There's thus no legit reason not to have lots more random encounters and grinding in user-made scenarios. It's not a puzzle-solving/conversation game, it's a combat game. So let's get more combat in these things.

 

Well, you know, it's what people make of it. There are a couple of scenarios that have no combat at all.

 

I've tried making my own, but the map maker thing is beyond me. I've never had a talent for coding, and that thing seems to assume you do. Alas. Thought I had a brilliant idea of modding existing maps finding the little settings for various combat but gee wiz guys, passwording your maps? Are you selling these things somewhere? If not, loose the passwords. What's gonna happen, someone makes a map better than you do tweaking things a bit? I'm all for art and preserving it, but the nature of computer code is customization. I'd LOVE to tweak FS's opening sequence removing the timer and instant-death thing so you can actually fight it. That'd have easily been the best combat sequence in the whole game of any map, but noooo, put a silly timer on it so we can run away and spend our time talking.

 

For what it's worth, there's been at least one case of a designer plagiarising entire town layouts from other scenarios, and it led to a lot of bad blood in the community for a while. Passwording scenarios can also be a mechanism to prevent players from cheating by looking at the scenario files; I can't say I ever really cared much about that personally, but some designers do.

[BainIhrno]

Of Good and Evil has some good battles, Quests of the Spheres, too. What scenarios have you played so far?

 

I actually agree on disliking time limits in Falling Stars - while the scenario and storyline was good, the scenario didn't give me enough time to really enjoy it.

[Celtic Minstrel]

The OBoE scenario editor ignores the passwords, for what it's worth. (I think the Windows-only CBoE one does too.) I'm fairly confident I'll have something vaguely releasable before the end of the year, both for Mac and for Windows, though the scenario editor probably still won't be able to save scenarios (thus functioning as a viewer only). It does depend on how busy I am during the Christmas season though, so it could slip a little.

[DeltanAmbassador]

 

 

Well, you know, it's what people make of it. There are a couple of scenarios that have no combat at all.

 

 

 

For what it's worth, there's been at least one case of a designer plagiarising entire town layouts from other scenarios, and it led to a lot of bad blood in the community for a while. Passwording scenarios can also be a mechanism to prevent players from cheating by looking at the scenario files; I can't say I ever really cared much about that personally, but some designers do.

 

If people 'steal' your deisgns, at least you have the satisfaction of making something worth stealing. Sorta like the old Piccaso line of, "Good artists borrow from other artists. Great artists steal outright." If not earning some kind of living or even just honorable mention though, I'm not sure how you can steal something. Kinda the nature of all this isn't it? Make something good that works, and others take it and use it as a base to build further upon. Dunno when the computer community got all weak titty about "this is mine, and no one else's." Started off very socialistic.

 

Have Good and Evil but havent' started it yet. How many additional maps to the stock 3 can be installed? Remember installing a bunch which proved too many and couldn't see some of them. So now I only keep a few going, delete the trainers which show up as their own like. Can move em in and out to a temp dir when not in use like.

 

I actually enjoy the low-level game the most judging by how readily I'll start a new party. Trying one now sans Alchemy in fact. Too easy to max gold and go on shopping sprees which kinda makes things too easy (esp. gear from FS - something fundamentally wrong when finger-wagglers have more defense than tanks heh.)

 

Have played:

 

stock 3; Rubacus; The Magnificent Six; Falling Stars (enough anyway not to explore around with low-level parties only there to shop heh;) Shadow of the Stranger; and a bunch of others but only to see if starting cities/towns have good shopping hehe. Or actually, one called 'Spears' I've explored around a bit. Descript said rec. for level low-moving to very high.

 

What I miss most is Exile 3's constant progression to level 50. Whereas Blades seems like it isn't set up for that end. Unless you take to wiping out entire towns or taking on dragons and the like. That opening battle in FS is the sorta thing that should be commoonplace, not super rare and unfightable because of the timer. First time I played it blissfully unaware of the timer heh, I thought it was the absolute best battle in the whole game of any scenario I'd played. Actually played it for quite some time eventually having to fall back into the castle to fight from a 'fortified position.' Forcing melee mobs to assault through doorways one at a time like.

 

Not even sure what the max days in FS is. Have gotten to 31 before using the

'out' item running back n forth in the big city between those two random item merchants. Get some good armor and misc items. Rubacus has a merchant like that with some similar, if rarer good drops and a refresh delay of 3 days instead of 1. But no wipe-timer so it's own unique appeal. I know I can refresh variable merchants via shift+w or whatever but I regard that as a cheating. At least progressing days uses up food forcing Manna to replenish and something along the lines of fairplay.

[Lilith]

If you just want big fights and lots of room for character progression without too many fancy gimmicks, you might want to try some of the higher-rated older scenarios like Nephil's Gambit, Amazonian Saga, or Islands of the Wheel. One of the reasons you see less of that kind of design in more recent scenarios is that with the huge number of scenarios out there (over 300), people started to get burned out on standard Blades combat. If you don't mind some puzzles with your combat (and sometimes in your combat) and can live with some shaky writing, Doom Moon and Doom Moon 2 might be worth a look as well.

[Slawbug]

Nephil's Gambit, still the best scenario ever.

[DeltanAmbassador]

Nephil's Gambit, still the best scenario ever.

 

Haven't tried Nephil's, but with two recommeding it, I'll dnl it here presently.

 

I outta say 'be careful what you wish for' at this point. I found some "interesting" combat in FS. One word, "Ambush!" That was a wipe... Of course now that I know it's there I know what to prepare for with my new party. ...I hate restarting, it's too cheaty.

 

Will give those others you suggested a look too Lilith, thanks.

[DeltanAmbassador]

Nephil's Gambit, still the best scenario ever.

 

Played it once so far up to the "escape" bit in the lizard's encampment. But due to a "wrong choice" shall we say am now levelling up another party. Was good up to that. Especially liked the thing he did with you can only go one way so you stay on the plotline like. While closed-world design isn't usually much fun, this was one of the exceptions. Also, the 'low' party suggestion was inaccurate. Maybe if we say low equals to 10th it's accurate as my party was all 8th starting out but it's not easy nor is it for a 1st level party. Of course that's if you play 'hardcore' style with no cheating and whatnot.

 

Hope everyone has a merry Christmas. I'm Jewish and even I dig Christmas. I'm like the black guy from "Ghostbusters," "if there presents or candy in it, I'll celebrate whatever you say."

[Lilith]

Played it once so far up to the "escape" bit in the lizard's encampment. But due to a "wrong choice" shall we say am now levelling up another party. Was good up to that. Especially liked the thing he did with you can only go one way so you stay on the plotline like. While closed-world design isn't usually much fun, this was one of the exceptions. Also, the 'low' party suggestion was inaccurate. Maybe if we say low equals to 10th it's accurate as my party was all 8th starting out but it's not easy nor is it for a 1st level party. Of course that's if you play 'hardcore' style with no cheating and whatnot.

 

It is designed for a 1st-level party, it's just kinda hard. There are some fights you're expected to run away from, or come back to later.

[DeltanAmbassador]

Playing a new party atm after my best-ever got wiped in the opening fight of Demon Island. Ironically had done the 'Captain rescue' fight a few time prior so knew it was coming. But walking onto his pile of bones, as opposed to clicking to look at it seems to have given up intiative and the demons who pop attacked first. And HARD! Mid 40s party, lost 4 with their opening attack, remaining two two were tanks and popped their Invulnerabilities but bereft of Bless, Haste, or anything else died in short order when Inv's wore off. Fun scenario though. Answered my bloodlust for epic battles Ironically, as I knew, but didn't think I had to, you can pre-buff before tough fights. Bless, Haste, Resist Magic don't last long outside of combat mode, but if a big fight is one step or click away, doing all that first can be worthwhile.

 

As did Falling Stars playing it through with this same party. Unbeknowst to me when I wrote it before, the Runesword ya get from the rescue mission early on is not only perm, but the best weapon I've yet seen. Wont spoil it for others, but sufficed to say hunting Rokkas is worthwhile. Think I had it maxxed as I can't imagine it getting more powerful... Seraphins btw count as Rokkas... Had fun in both the Ambush fights. The Seraphins are high hitpoints by mortal, wail on them long enough they die like everything else. Stock up on invulnerability potions (DI has a merchant with strong pots for this.)

 

Valley of Dying Things right now with new party. Knowing what's ahead of me helps plan their creation and roles. Last party had been maxxing Luck, but given how it only helps once then you're dead anyway, think with how hard Seraphins melee, raising Defense is a more worthwhile expenditure. Also, in FS for hunting Rokkas, the raod outside that Fort/City where one of the Seraphin fights is is great to stand around on, passing time until the next wandering Rokka skirmish comes along. Progresses the days of course which is finite, but maxxing the sword then restarting the scenario works. Minor exploit I suppose but what are ya gonna do.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Last party had been maxxing Luck, but given how it only helps once then you're dead anyway,

That's not entirely true. Luck has several small effects:

• Slightly improved odds of better treasure drops
  
• Occasionally reduces damage by 1
  
• Sometimes saves you when you'd otherwise be killed
  
• Improves your chance of disarming traps (but not as much as disarm traps skill)
  

 

Admittedly, the death save is the nmost obvious effect.

[Slawbug]

What do you mean by "only helps once"?

[Celtic Minstrel]

Yeah, the life-saving effect of luck is rolled each time you would otherwise die.