Features You'd Want In Geneforge Remakes

[Hyena of Ice]

Hmm... there are some odd cases in item drops (an apparently hard-coded low-chance Girdle of Might drop from a particular Terror Vlish in G3, for example, that I found reference to only in an obscure thread here), and I suppose you're right

Yes, indeed-- the monsters (minus roamers) in the Roamer Marsh in G3 come to mind.

 

And, actually, that sort of info could be more important if the Geneforge remake follows recent convention and doesn't show you enemy HP when you right-click them

Most definitely. There would have to be some pages in the encyclopedia that explain level-based gains though-- possibly a section that talks about creations. (e.g. the monster encyclopedia also has a section in the front that discusses in-depth how a creation gains levels, along with some stuff about monster types-- e.g. that mind-affecting spells don't work on golems, fungi, or shades because they don't have minds, and that discipline wands only work on creations, with a distinction made between creations and augmented animals i.e. rats and crawlers.)

So what you'd end up with are separate entries for creations and monsters (the vanilla monsters without a "rogue" before the name don't drop items), with the Creation one including "Base Fyora" "Base Cryoa" for the fyora category and the monster encyclopedia starting with "Fyora Type" which gives the level-based gains. Then it would be followed by entries like "Base Rogue Fyora" "Base Rogue Cryoa" "Charged Fyora" "Pit Bred Cryoa" etc. for the Fyora category. Some entries for the creature would read like the Itemchars.txt in that you'd see "Base HP" "Base Level" etc.

I am not sure how Jeff would be able to code some of the entries for monsters whose drops or stats are in the hard code, such as the Swamp Thahd of the Roamer Marsh in G3.

 

I just would rather not see only technical data.

Hmmm.... I was thinking only technical data, but now that you mention it, I agree. I think, for instance, that entries like "preferred habitat" should be listed (roamers obviously would be "wetland forest" and "wetland prarie", for instance-- climate would be listed with it, but I don't remember if roamers are found in tropical swamps or not. Other creatures wouldn't have a preference and probably just have "any" in the entry. Giant Rats are definitely "any non-arctic, with preference for refuse piles")

Maybe preferred foods would be listed as well. Most would be "carnivore", with some saying "Carnivore, with a preference for ____" (I can picture Vlish favoring brains) while rats would be "Scavenger and Miscellaneous", and roamers would be "carnivore and scavenger". I would imagine that Thahds and Alphas would be omnivores, as it looks like they were created using ape/chimp stock. Serviles are obviously omnivores.

 

BTW, just realized another inconsistency. So the captured Shapers at Gull Isle have been imprisoned for weeks at minimum. You are told that they can barely walk. However, Agatha teleports them all either straight to The Spire, or somewhere else only to raid the town a day or two later. Whichever the case, when you return to the Spire, you learn that Agatha and the weakened Guardians and Agents had no trouble wiping out all of the servile warriors.

 

Ooh, another thing I would LOVE to see: Optional quest to repair the school!! Actually, I know it would be Jeff's job to do the character creation and dialogue, but I have a vivid imagination that doesn't have an on or off switch. I will cover that in my next post.

[Hyena of Ice]

Okay, this is a long post.

 

First off, some of the quests I came up with:

 

--Repair the School quest tree. Starts as soon as you return from the South End outpost. You can end up trapped out of the quest tree if you don't finish X number of quests before leaving for the next island, or if you join the rebels. All of the quests are available by the time you reach the end of Dhonal Isle.

--First quest is "Stabilize the School", which is a simple fetch quest. You need to gather 10 boards, 5 hatchets, 5 saws, and maybe like 5 rope (in the original G3, I believe you can find these just in the South End and E. side of the Captured Bridge, alone.)

--Second quest is to fetch the blueprints of the school. Unfortunately, they're on the top floor, which the students sealed off to keep the rogue creations/worms/crawlers/rats inside. Only part of the top floor is accessible. If this quest is not finished before you enter Harmony Isle, then you get locked out of the quest tree, but you're unlikely to miss it since you still get the quest during a cut scene if you didn't get it by talking to the students. Finishing the quest makes some additional non-essential areas accessible after you speak to Commander Hevvig (or when you leave and return after the funeral procession.

--You get several quests after that which become available at different points in the game up to the end of Dhonal Isle. Most are either fetch quests (mostly for boards and stone blocks, which actually have a use in this game, hooray! And some tools-- mainly rope, hammers, and a few pickaxes, saws, clay bricks, and hatchets.) or "clear out the newly available section of the top floor" quests.

 

--Healing Supplies Quest Tree

Available as soon as you defeat the Battle Alpha. Many of the students are injured and need you to go on fetch quests to bring extra supplies. Much shorter quest tree than the school repair one.

--First quest requires you bring x number of bandages, sticks, and healing pods.

--Next one requires you bring like-- 10 or 20 pieces of food (20 total of any type of food) and 5 sacks of flour or something like that.

--Next one requires more healing pods and some curing pods, along with a few essence pods.

--Eventually you'll get a quest that requires you bring some dried herbs, saltweed, and wiry moss.

 

--Bring News Quest Tree

Some are quests and some are just dialogue.

--Not a quest, but as soon as you return to the school, you can tell the students about Litalia.

--Quest to see what the situation is on the island-- you can finish it as soon as you enter either the Captured Bridge of the Eastern Road and get the dialogue about the rogues.

--Quest to clear the way to Fort Kentia so that the students can go home. You can finish it as soon as you talk Hevvig. You have to break the news about the quarantine to the students.

--Once you clear out the mines (or convince Hevvig to give you the boat), you can tell the students that you're leaving the island. You'll get the quest to report to them the condition of Harmony Isle.

 

Not sure if this would be a cut scene, quest, or if it would happen at the beginning while you're escaping from the school, but obviously the creation holding cells in the arboretum region would be compromised, and the rogue/unstable creations therein escape. If it's a cut-scene, then it would happen if you enter the Arboretum zone after telling the students about Litalia. If it's during the escape from the school, however (also a likely scenario), then it might be a cut scene once you tell Alwan that you received permission from Mind Hrrol (which means that it is avoidable)

 

On a similar note, you might get extra experience from clearing the exit to the school based on the number of students who survive.

 

The cast I've come up with (obviously you would need like-- 4 zones to prevent lag-- should be four anyhow-- The main floor, the basement, the top floor, and the pier/arboretums/creation holding cells (that outdoor area with the four sheds in the opening picture) I mean come on, there aren't enough students in the original-- what, we have like-- 1 student per teacher? Yeah, right. They couldn't all have gotten killed or fled. Also bear in mind that I REALLY want to see the ability to choose gender in the remakes.

 

--De-facto leader A: A female guardian. Same year as Alwan, and shared many of the same classes with him. She doesn't get along with him very well early in the game because she views him as a reckless klutz. Provides the battle-related decisions and morale to the group, also in charge of the "law enforcement". Usually found in the entrance hall near the courtyard.

 

--De-facto leader B: A male agent, dark purple (palette ---) Tries to unify the group and keep the peace. More articulate than the female guardian, sometimes helps her with speeches beforehand. Gets along with Alwan for the most part, but sometimes scolds him for the inability to think for himself. Usually found at the intersection outside the arboretums.

 

--Male Guardian A: Think Alwan's personality on steroids. A hothead with a serious superiority complex. Divisive towards you, the outsider guards and Greta, tends to take his frustrations out on others, largely because he is injured and thus can't go out and fight the rogues like he wants to. He is jealous of Alwan because he can. Oh, and it doesn't help that there is some bad blood between him and Alwan (something petty, like-- a tournament where they were equally matched a couple years ago, which concluded with Alwan winning due to some asinine technicality. Alwan doesn't consider it to have been a win on his part, either, but this guy has a serious chip on his shoulder about it.)

 

--Male Guardian B: Meh, haven't thought up his personality yet. He's probably the one who likes to tease people sometimes derisively, sometimes playfully-- makes fun of Alwan's big nose and Greta's "manly brows". Pisses your companions off at one point by playfully joking that Alwan and Greta are a couple. Usually found in the entrance hall or courtyard, guarding the graves of your teachers.

 

--"Sick Guardian": Always in the infirmiry. Crawler wound that is badly infected. Eventually dies when it turns out that he was parasitized-- possibly culminates in a gory cut-scene where the worms come out of him and attack the students. Or if Jeff decides that's too gory, then a passing mention and new temporary grave site in the courtyard.

 

--Female Agent A: A bit on the cold side; doesn't get along with you or Greta. Her expertise on animals and creations (their behavior and hunting them, that is) is unmatched. Also takes frustrations out on others. Usually found outside the arboretum or on the remaining part of the second floor.

 

--Female Agent B: Most neutrally aligned student in the group, somewhat amicable towards Greta. Always found near the teachers' bodies *courtyard once they have been buried* Injured.

 

--Male Shaper A: The healer of the group. Being an apprentice, his abilities are still quite limited.

 

--Male Shaper B: A mechanical engineer, and rather humble for a shaper. Vouches for the structural engineer, and they soon become friends. Injured.

 

--Guard A: A structural engineer. He is in charge of stabilizing and repairing the school. He is very assertive for an outsider when it comes to decisions regarding this-- though out of loyalty rather than arrogance (these are students, and some of them let their arrogance cloud their judgment. He would never disobey an order from a full shaper. His insistence in taking charge of the stabilization and repair of the building is due in part because he is fairly certain that it is the decision that the teachers would have made.)

 

Then there are also numerous stock characters-- mostly serviles and guards, but 2-3 students of each class as well.

 

Probably going to be some serious lag in this area. The school would probably have to be divided up into four parts.

First floor would still be a nightmare though, as it would include the infirmary, Mind Hrrol, kitchen, vat room, and courtyard, which is were most of the majority of the characters are going to be. Perhaps the teachers' rooms should be on the second floor-- yes, that sounds good, though it won't do anything for the lag.

Luckily, most of the NPCs aren't present until after you defeat the Battle Alpha in the courtyard or leave and return.)

 

Some of the dialogues:

--The one mentioned in my earlier post about the graphic description of your slain teachers.

--If you return after leaving/being visited by Litalia at the South End, their bodies are replaced by an equal number of bloody tarps. If Greta is with you, she will ask a nearby guard which is the body of her favorite teacher (the kind female shaper). Greta, being as dangerously curious as she is, lifts the tarp. "The sight absolutely horrifies her. _____ suffered such severe injuries to her face that it is no longer recognizable. Greta leaps back, screaming. She huddles against the wall, crying hysterically. While you feel her pain, this is not an acceptable reaction for a shaper to make in public. Alwan clearly wants to chide her for this, but he decides to keep his mouth. Instead, he simply shakes his head in disgust."

 

--Short cut-scene dialogue if you bring Greta where they take their frustrations out on her a bit, and a couple of the students insult both you and Alwan. (the PC and Alwan aren't particularly popular with the students either. Alwan to a far lesser degree than you and Greta-- the students don't trust you because you were always studying/cramming and rarely around) Alwan and Guardian A nearly get into a physical altercation when he calls the two of you traitors for travelling with Greta.

 

--Most of the students will be unfriendly if your alignment leans toward rebel, but it probably won't affect the quests you can get.

 

--You can tell some of the students that you completed the training hall.

 

 

Then of course there's the powerful/emotional funeral procession. I even thought up part of the dialogue (remember what I said earlier about my runaway imagination? )

 

It occurs when you enter the courtyard on your way to give Mind Hrrol your report after speaking to Commander Hevvig. Fittingly, it's raining when you enter the courtyard, and most of the students along with some of the guards and serviles are all gathered there. There are now temporary graves (grave sprite w. wooden markers) in the upper right corner (fallen students) and at the center of the courtyard, where everyone is gathered around. One of the guards tells you that you're just in time for the funeral procession.

 

 

Some dialogue I imagined up for the funeral:

 

"The rain, perhaps, is a fitting addition to the somber atmosphere. You think you can hear a few of the students sniffling over the sound of the pouring rain."

 

some of the lines during the eulogy:

"As a shaper, the details of your teachers' murders infuriate you. But, you can't help but wonder if your indignation goes beyond even that of a Shaper. Your teachers risked-- no, sacrificed themselves to protect you and your fellow students. For this, they were rewarded with painful deaths, and their bodies fed upon by rogues and giant rats. They deserved better than this.

Then you think about Master Hoge. He abandoned your teachers to their horrible fate. He did nothing to protect his students, which was his duty as a teacher. To add insult to injury, he broke Shaper law by abandoning one of his own creations at Fort Kentia.

Finally you think back to Litalia. [Edit: I messed up on this line, I'll have to think of something else infuriating for the PC to think about regarding her]

 

If Alwan and Greta are with you, then you get these lines respectively:

"(name of male agent) begins a funerary speech. The guardians, including Alwan, remove their helmets to show their respect, while the Agents and Shapers pull back their hoods. For the first time, you see Alwan's entire face and his hair. (insert first three lines of the eulogy-- haven't thought them up beyond that the male agent states that the speech is a combined work between him and many of the other students) Several of the students, and even a guard or two, begin to cry."

 

then a bit later:

"As (name of male agent) continues the Eulogy, you look to your left at Alwan. Because of the rain, you can't tell if he is shedding tears or not, though he looks quite upset-- and very, very angry.

You look to your right at Greta. She is sobbing. She is clearly trying to keep her volume low, but the feedback effect from the cries of the students and the serviles is making this difficult."

 

Then when the procession wraps up:

"As the funeral procession wraps up, several of the students approach the graves. (insert name of the healer Shaper) places (insert name of one of the Shaper teachers)'s cane at the base of his grave marker. (insert name of one of the two non-stock male guardians) rests (insert name of the Guardian teacher)'s sword against his grave marker. Several of the students place flowers on the graves. (insert name of the kind female shaper)'s grave receives the most by far.

Greta looks ashamed about something. (insert name of the female Agent who gets along with Greta) smiles ands removes three of the flowers from her boquet. She offers three of them to Greta. Greta is clearly touched, and thanks her. They approach (insert name of kind female shaper)'s grave together and place the flowers there."

 

 

The long cut scene concludes with you and many of the students gathering in one of the rooms adjacent to the courtyard. As usual, there is infighting, with Greta being the occasional scapegoat. Also at this point, you will tell them about the quarantine thus completing the "Clear Path to Kentia" quest. The devastating news only worsens the infighting. Eventually, either you (if your leadership is adequate) or the female Guardian manage to break up the arguing, and for the first time, the students become united. They decide to work together to repair the school.

At this point you'll get the blueprint quest if you haven't gotten (or finished) it before. The school will be stabilized and rubble removed from paths to the key areas regardless of whether you finished said quest or not (the only difference is that you don't get experience for the "Stabilize School" quest upon your return from Hvvig)

 

 

That's how I picture all of that in the remake, anyway.

[Hyena of Ice]

Oh, another thing-- can we please have a different text when Alwan reaches 0 HP? Fleeing in terror from severe injuries works for Greta, but not for Alwan, it just doesn't fit his character. IMO it would be better to have a text read something like "Alwan collapses from his grievous wounds. Take him back to the school (or Bulwark Inn) to get him treated for his injuries"

Yeah, just a nickpick I've always had.

 

Oh, one other nitpick-- where do Alwan and Greta sleep at the Bulwark Inn? We're told that there are no rooms, and we see them near the entrance roasting marshmallows together. What, do they both sleep in the storage room? (I'd think they would at least want separate rooms, and I'm sure that whatever the setup, that Alwan is going to whine that he isn't being treated like a Shaper)

[TomoftheLand]

i agree about the junk bag and Spunkrian's second point- I think it would be cool if there was a cumulative incentive to cultivate lower-strength creatures; kind of like how a larvitar eventually turns into a tyrannitar, and a dratini into a dragonite if you train it for long enough (the reference seemed appropriate). I'm undecided on the romance option, but I believe an arena side plot would prove useful.

 

----- My one request above all (it was the main impetus for me signing up to post to these forums) is that, as one person started to discuss, I would like to use my Hard-won Ur-Drakons for more than just the last 15 minutes of the game.

In pursuit of this, I could go for a larger-scale expansion of the game once the play has hit ur-drakon time. Perhaps the subsequent regions could have an interesting and challenging mix of shaping needs- like a variety of creature and npc levels and the need for utility-based creations one person has asked for with respect to agents and guardians' making use of the highly powerful and preemi ent force of shaping.

[TomoftheLand]

i agree about the junk bag and Spunkrian's second point- I think it would be cool if there was a cumulative incentive to cultivate lower-strength creatures; kind of like how a larvitar eventually turns into a tyrannitar, and a dratini into a dragonite if you train it for long enough (the reference seemed appropriate). I'm undecided on the romance option, but I believe an arena side plot would prove useful.

 

----- My one request above all (it was the main impetus for me signing up to post to these forums) is that, as one person started to discuss, I would like to use my Hard-won Ur-Drakons for more than just the last 15 minutes of the game.

In pursuit of this, I could go for a larger-scale expansion of the game once the play has hit ur-drakon time. Perhaps the subsequent regions could have an interesting and challenging mix of shaping needs- like a variety of creature and npc levels and the need for utility-based creations one person has asked for with respect to agents and guardians' making use of the highly powerful and preemi ent force of shaping.

[Meri20098]

A built in character editor like in the avernum series

[Wizard Orcasus]

I love the Idea of hiring guards or maybe not precisely guards but having a fortress and having turrets and serviles look for it and all and have your party stay there and all. (Even if I don't really love the idea of having serviles as my servants. I'm a Trakovite you see and so all live especially the lives of intelligent creations should be treated with respect and NEVER EVER mistreated or misused!!!!!!) I always wanted to shape turrets. I love the idea of those plant like creature that protects you. XD

 

I really love the Idea of romance for everyone

oh and regardless of sexual orientation.

 

And yeah pls pls pls make gender option available for any class pls.

[wackypanda]

If this thread is open to story suggestions as well as mechanics, I'd like there to be more consistency about the Shapers' and rebels' military strengths and weaknesses, especially in G3 and G4. In G2 the rebels are the ones who designed the new creations that weren't in G1, which makes sense because they are the ones with the gene-reading magic. It's emphasised that creating new creation types by magically altering genes is much easier to do and to track than the old way of mixing and matching patterns of magic to see what sticks, hence why the rebels so quickly became a credible threat to the Shapers. Yet in G3 we see the Shapers losing ground to the rebels, who are using the revolutionary tactic of... spamming spawners. Both sides can do better than that. If, say, the rebels were doing truly unconventional things like releasing shredbugs, or releasing viruses that infected people with high essence stores (i.e. high-level Shapers), one can see why the Shapers would have trouble fighting them. (A mind-eating virus with the same effect as Greiner's shade would be interesting to see.)

 

Also in this vein, in G4 it's the Shapers who designed the wingbolt and kyshakk while the rebels copied them. I think it'd make more sense to be the other way round, which would also explain one of Alwan's lines in G5, where he says that his success defending the Storm Plains was due to using wingbolts and kyshakks instead of only older creations - the previous defender of the Storm Plains would have been reluctant to use "rebel" creations, while those who actually fought in G4 realise that as long as they can be made loyal, it makes no difference. I also find it a bit difficult to believe that the Shapers managed to design a virus against the Unbound in a matter of weeks, when the speed of adaptation of their art (or relative lack thereof compared to the rebels) was supposed to be their one weakness.

 

Mechanics-wise, I'd like the quick item slots to support switching non-weapon equipment.

[Goldengirl]

That makes a lot of sense, wackypanda. I always rationalized it as the Shapers having way more resources, such as labs and Shapers, to do new research. Meanwhile, the Rebels have a dearth of both, as most of their Lifecrafters are busy fighting rather than researching, and most of their territory where they might have labs is under threat of attack. In fact, the only real Rebel lab was in the Grayghosts, and most of the Drakons had to withdraw from the front lines to help with the research there.

 

It would be nice to implement combat disciplines. Guardians and other melee-heavy characters can be really boring to play without them. That might be a way to spice up the Battle creations, too, since the biggest complaint against them for most of the series is that they were underpowered.

[Star Sage]

I always saw it more as a 'they had the designs laying around, but didn't use them until pushed'. Remember, games 1-3 are in isolated areas. A secluded Isle, a valley cut off from the rest of the continent by high mountains, and finally the Archipelago which was described by almost everyone as the ass end of nowhere, which made it a good place to train new shapers, because if they got ahead of themselves and made something uncontrollable, it was isolated, and not a threat to others. Game 4 and 5 though are at the shapers door, with people pressing them harder and harder, so of course they bring all their guns to bear.

 

Remember also, until 2, all the creations had a purpose outside of battle(Not that we used them for such, but then, it's a game, and you don't need workers).

 

Fyora: Easy to shape, good training for newbies, and also can serve as both pets and attack dogs.

Roamers: Scouts and finders, able to move in ways others aren't, I seem to remember someone describing them as fast as well.

Drayk: Banned creations, but intelligent, probably meant to be leadership for when a shaper isn't around.

Thahd: General Purpose worker, easy to make, stronger than a servile, but stupider too. Use for manual labor.

Clawbugs: Diggers and otherwise good at construction/deconstruction, useful for building new labs and facilities.

Battle Alpha: Despite the name, they're basically stronger versions of the Thahd, and can be used as such, when one thahd isn't enough, make an alpha instead.

Artilia: Like the Fyora, usually the second creation you learn, simple and easy to make, but different skills are required.

Vlish: Distance extender for control and command.

Glaahk: Hmm....no idea what non-combat purpose, but then, maybe they could just be used as guards, to protect your stuff, or protect you from an experiment gone wrong. Strong acids to break down something before it grows out of control sort of things, basically trashmen for the Shapers.

 

Mind, these are just my own thoughts on the matter.

[wackypanda]

That also makes sense. I guess I'd just like to see one or two (if not all) of the new creations being rebel creations, since that was supposed to be their advantage, while the Shapers' main advantage is their greater experience.

 

Re: combat disciplines, I haven't played the Avernum remakes, so I have no informed opinion about whether I'd like that system. I believe someone suggested earlier that they could be essentially spells which get bonuses from Melee Weapons and Missile Weapons.

 

The other thing that would make combat-heavy characters interesting is if offensive consumables (wands, crystals, etc.) scaled with Missile Weapons. When playing as a servile in G4, I really liked the variety of effects I could pull out of my pack that way. I'm aware that offensive consumables have generally not scaled with any stat in the games made since then. Was this done for balance reasons? That one change in G5 was the major reason I did not play a combat-strong class (warrior/guardian or servile) in that game.

[Lilith]

Well, I mean, the Unbound were rebel-only creations, although obviously they weren't ones you yourself could create.

[Learned Noremac]

Well, all the new G2 creations were rebel-designed, no? The shapers were playing catch-up with the wingbolt, kyshhak and war trall. The Drakon, Rothgroth, and Gazer are all rebel-made, right?

[wackypanda]

Yes, the G2 creations were all rebel designs. In G4 the Shapers could plausibly catch up, as other posters explained earlier, since in G4 the Shapers are managing to push the rebels back. It just seems odd to me that the rebels apparently haven't made anything new (apart from the Unbound) since G2, even in G3 when the rebels are at the peak of their military strength (and it seriously does no credit to the Shapers or the rebels that this peak was achieved basically by spamming spawners).

 

Re: combat disciplines/combat activated abilities, they would also add to the game by increasing the temptation to use canisters when playing a combat-strong class. A combat-weak class (Shaper/Lifecrafter or Sorceress) wants to learn both spells and creations, while a combat-mid or combat-strong class doesn't get as much use out of one of those spheres and can more easily afford to go without canisters.

[Serros]

Main things I can think of are some small fixes, like the fact that canisters mean less opportunity for training in G2 if you use them before being trained. I also found it rather nice having human companions that gave their opinions in G3, perhaps a form of this with the options to change their views/personalities based on your dialogue with them would help. I admit I'd rather a new Geneforge game to a remake, but I accept that's unlikely to happen. Less 0 value items in the later games, it just doesn't make sense. I don't mind if they're only worth 1 or 2 gold, just the idea that robes, thorns etc. are worthless is ludicrous to me.

Another thing is the ability to make more than two different forms of creation. Example: Be able to choose between regular, searing or plated artila. Only other thing I can think of is, once crafting recipes are found, have them stored in some type of record. I end up forgetting which ones I've found/not found or not caring, and end up using a guide for this purpose.

[Gnosis]

What would I like? What I want is for the Geneforge games to optionally affect each other according to what the player did in the previous games. I... Don't know how to explain. I'm bad with words.

 

Also, a junk bag. Definitely a junk bag. In fact, if you'd prefer, just forget what I said a moment ago and pay MORE attention to the junk bags.

[wackypanda]

I'd like a way to switch the default attack of ranged creations from ranged to melee. If I'm fielding cryoas and fighting cold-immune shades, for example, it's annoying to manually make the cryoas close to melee.

 

Also, there should be a way to switch Greta's attack types when she upgrades. It was annoying to face so many magic-resistant enemies right after upgrading her from Firebolt to the magic/acid Searer.

[Valdain the King]

The only think would be cool would be if jeff made more survivable creations. I want to really take 2 fyoras and buff them up and make them last the whole game. No 1 shotting. In endgame in g1-3, all creations are weak and get1 shotted. Thats all I really want. His games are art and they are ideas that cannot be tampered with. They are bulleproof. And otherwise they cant be made bad. At least I think s.o.

[Dragonboy]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the big one yet: The Geneforge itself.

 

It was highly disappointing to never get to use the Geneforge again (no the geneforges in 4 and 5 do not count). I would've loved to see as an optional ending in 5 to build your own Geneforge from scratch. You'd have to spend the game stealing information on the creation of the Geneforge from Rebel and Shaper archives alike and gather all the materials yourself. Then you could decide to use it just for yourself, after which you strike down both the Shaper council and Ghaldring, or choose to let everyone use it, giving an sort of worldwide nuclear fallout scenario for an ending. As it was, the geneforge, literally the title of the games, was used far more as just a initial plot device that set all five games in motion than something you actually dealt with in game.

[kuo]

It would be very nice if the GUI for a G1 remake was similar to that in G4 or G5, without the start/end combat symbol effect in Avernum remakes/Avadon.

Or an option to enable/disable it.

[Mechalibur]

It would be cool if, instead of just increasing your level in shaping different creations, you learn increasingly powerful mutations for them at the cost of essence. For example, you could upgrade your artila to become plated, increasing evasion and hp, or instead learn how to make them searing, improving their acid damage. Late game you could even make inferno worms, although I suppose that has the potential to get extremely overpowered.

 

After playing through G3, I'm starting to think it could really benefit from a 3rd faction, or perhaps a way to escape the Ashen Isles without joining either side. Both the shapers and rebels have some serious problems, and being forced to join one of them got a little annoying.

[wackypanda]

That may very well end up like the "run away" endings in G1 and G2.

 

I think G5, being a return to the multi-faction nonsense of G1 and G2, should allow sequence breaking the way G1 and G2 did. (The "option" to ram your way through Lerman's Pass and Perikalia Orchards does not count.) G1 and G2 generally had people tell you who and where the factions were early on, and if you thought one of them sounded more interesting you could sneak over to them straight away. G2 also handled this quite elegantly: after emerging from the tunnel, the most level-appropriate area is Awakened territory. But if you wanted to join the Barzites, you could sneak over to them - and then the first quest they'd give you is to sabotage the Awakened, pointing you straight back to level-appropriate encounters.

[Dragonboy]

Nah, G2 pretty much forced you to go Shaper, Awakened, Bazites, Takers. The only way you could make it to the Barzites was if you had prior knowledge of the areas because you are forced to run through three hostile zones to gath and then another three to the Barzites main town, packed with monsters way beyond your level. I highly doubt anyone got to the Barzites before the awakened on their first try. Also, the Takers were pretty much end game stuff being stuck in the northwest mountains. I won't deny it was better system that the later games though. It felt a lot less like you were forced into specific areas and to do specific things.

[Mechalibur]

That may very well end up like the "run away" endings in G1 and G2.

 

Which I have no issue with. Not all endings have to be good endings... which has been made very clear in the series

[wackypanda]

I highly doubt anyone got to the Barzites before the awakened on their first try. Also, the Takers were pretty much end game stuff being stuck in the northwest mountains.

Actually, the G2 Takers had that feather token system that would allow one to reach them from Awakened lands, skipping the Barzites and most of the Awakened quests, and there was more than one way to get it.

Which I have no issue with. Not all endings have to be good endings... which has been made very clear in the series

I agree.

[Goldengirl]

Short of literally running away from Terrestia and escaping to Sholai lands, it doesn't make sense for there to be an unaligned ending. The war is coming one way or another.

 

Although, escaping and letting Terrestia burn to the ground until civilization as a meaningful term is gone - that could be interesting. And set up Geneforge VI: Anarchy.

[Wizard Orcasus]

Does Jeff read these topics? or only the ones he made?

[Randomizer]

It depends upon his boredom level. Years ago when he was really bored and supposed to be watching his daughter, he answered the census topic.

 

Right now he is working on Avadon 3: Warborn, so he mostly reads the topic where he lists game changes and looks at what we want and reactions.

[Wizard Orcasus]

oh ok. thx

[Vanceros]

I want to see doors closing.

[wackypanda]

Features that I don't want to see removed (as opposed to features I want added):

 

- Closing doors, as above

- The ability to see a character's exact HP. I used this very often to gauge a character's level and when I should fight them, if at all.

- The ability to attack friendly or neutral characters. I could be wrong, but I don't recall anyone breaking G1 or G2 this way. In G3-G5 any place and time where this would break the game had an auto-kill node. The benefit of this is being able to kill everyone in, say, G4's Rebel Safehouse or Dillame, for kicks after finishing the chapter.

- After the first attack when hasted, characters should still be able to move to engage an enemy in melee, but not move freely.

[alhoon]

I would like:

 

- Better benefits for keeping a creation around. A 30 level Cryora costing 100 essense is worse (at least in GF4) from a lvl 30 Drayk costing 80 essense. And you can fairly easily make lvl 30 Drayks as a shaper-heavy char. They start at 24... IIRC

 

- I want to know how my after creations essense maximum is!

 

- NPCs that sticked around and had a bit of dialogue, options or perhaps "loyalty quest".

 

- GF5 interface

 

- More "filler" graphics. I.e. Not every shaper having the same blue robe, every agent the same curly short black hair etc. More (and more varied) people walking around in cities.

 

- Earlier warnings about cannistrers turning you crazy. I had downed like 4 before I learned to my amazement that the more you get, the greater the strain.

 

- BATHROOMS.

 

- Even MORE creations.

[Slawbug]

- BATHROOMS.

This may be a bad idea unless the door closing situation is different.

[ThricebornPhoenix]

The only think would be cool would be if jeff made more survivable creations. I want to really take 2 fyoras and buff them up and make them last the whole game.

- Better benefits for keeping a creation around. A 30 level Cryora costing 100 essense is worse (at least in GF4) from a lvl 30 Drayk costing 80 essense.

 

I haven't tried with Fyoras, but I have (Normal difficulty) kept at least two Cryoas alive through the end of each game at least once. I didn't even invest much essence in their stats - some END when it got hard to keep them alive, some DEX when they started to miss, but not much of either. It could probably be done on Hard with more effort or by someone with more skill. I don't imagine anyone keeps low-tier creations for long on Torment any more than they keep a Stick as their primary weapon.

 

Significantly buffing weaker creations doesn't make sense. It would disrupt what balance the games have and contradict the lore, which usually cites each higher tier of creation as an improvement on a previous one. Note that every Fire creation except (probably) the Roamer is based on the Fyora. (This creates a neat bookending effect as the humble Fyora, most stable and tame of creations, is the progenitor of the series' WMD.)

[Slawbug]

DEX, sadly, does not help creations be more accurate. Not even with their ranged attacks. The tooltip is a lie.

 

Is the Drayk explicitly based on the Fyora? (And the Kyshakk? Kyshakks presumably aren't based on drayks, since they were developed by loyalists to whom drayks were barred.) I don't remember that, but it'd be neat.

 

Cryoas are a lot better than fyoras, and this effect is magnified at high levels, because their ice attack is so much better. In most of the games it's the same attack cryodrayks have, and weaker only because the creation is weaker.

[Randomizer]

The main trouble with keeping beginning type creations around is that they are highly susceptible to mental attacks in the last third of the game.

[alhoon]

Actually, I found them doing ok against mental attacks.

Anyway, I wasn't suggesting a Cryora to be as good as a cryodrak. But a Cryora at 35 lvl that costs 100 essence shouldn't be THAT much worse than a cryodrayk that it makes keeping the Cryora a sentimentality choice. A Kyshaak could pack about as much damage to an enemy with strong magic resistance as my cryora with 0 damage resisted. And had 2-3 times the health.

That's when I let my trusty Cryora go, and it was a painful choice. I felt... like a shaper! Using my creations as tools and then disposing them. If at least when you absorbed them, there was not the death animation and that pool of blood to remind you what you did... it would be better.

[Slawbug]

Your mistake was buffing all the stats. The essence cost of stat buffs is absurdly high, IMO, and has been since since G1. Since your creation gain stats as they level up anyway, and that costs 0 essence, they are almost never worth it. Cryoas look better if you keep them cheap, so you might be comparing 7 levelled-up cryoas against 3 or 4 drayks (or whatever). They might not be the best choice even then, but they aren't outclassed hands down by any means.

[alhoon]

Yes, but at least in GF4 (The only one I've played to the end) there's an XP penalty for having too many creations. I didn't put a single dot to my Drakon or Kashyyk or something. But I see what you said. My creations had +8 str, +6 dex from my equipment or something.

However, in GF5, I am literally swimming in essence and I don't have high level creations yet, just got Vlish and Clawbugs and I have about 300 essence. I have 3 creations at about 60-70 essence cost each so I buffed my cryora (I don't like roamers)

[Randomizer]

You use extra essence to buff the group with speed and other spells for increased damage.

[alhoon]

Yeap, I did that too. I always left about 50-70 essence after creations. So, when I reached like 600 essence, I had 3 costly creations. Drakon, Gazer, Kyshaak.

[Slawbug]

XP "penalties" amount to almost nothing due to the way experience is awarded. The XP penalty only applies to creations, and it's fairly small per creation; even with all 7 slots filled, your creations will eventually be a level or two behind where they'd be if they were solo pets -- but it never goes much beyond that.

[alhoon]

Only for the creations? But I get less XP from kills and quests with many creations than with a few. Or the "you get 27 XP" thing is a bug?

[Lilith]

Only for the creations? But I get less XP from kills and quests with many creations than with a few. Or the "you get 27 XP" thing is a bug?

 

Slarty's either mistaken about that or phrased what he meant confusingly; the XP penalty does apply to you, and your creations' XP gains are simply based directly on your own. However, XP gains are scaled very heavily based on your current level, so once you start to fall behind in levels from the penalty you'll start to gain more XP and catch up again. Even the penalty for having a full set of 7 creations will only make a difference of a few levels over the course of the entire game. In Geneforge 4, for example, a character who does every possible quest and uses 7 creations constantly as soon as they have the essence to support them will finish the game around level 42-43, while a character who goes solo for the entire game and does every possible quest will finish the game around level 46-47.

[Slawbug]

Hmm. Mistaken, possibly, or possibly this is different in different games from the series? I know the math on the XP penalty changed several times between games.

[alhoon]

42 With 7 Creations? I was like 40-41 with 3 creations and I thought I did most... I even farmed XP from the infinite-respawn areas.

Thanks, I'll keep it on mind

[Lilith]

42 With 7 Creations? I was like 40-41 with 3 creations and I thought I did most... I even farmed XP from the infinite-respawn areas.

Thanks, I'll keep it on mind

 

Did you stay loyal to one side or play as a double agent? There are quite a few situations where you can do quests for both the Shapers and Rebels and receive rewards for both, including experience: for example, doing the quests for the Shaper infiltrators in Chapter 4 and then killing them. Likewise, there are some places where you're given a choice of alternate routes, like fighting your way through an area or disarming some traps to clear a passage around the enemies, but you can actually do both and get experience for both.

[alhoon]

I did ... most of the rebel quests and some shaper ones. At one point, the shapers stopped giving me quests. Yet, while I was at 1st loyalty reward for rebels at that point.

But I haven't thought about the "doing both mechanichs and battle path" way to be sincere. Once I was through an area, I kinda found it boring to go back and disarm mines for 9xp each.

Thinking of it, I didn't do stuff worth probably about 4-5K exp, so I would have ended at about 45 lvl.