First timer for the Avadon series (few questions)

[AzuredreamsXT]

Hey, just wanted to ask the veterans here some questions regarding the series, thanks in advance for any answers/feedback. I plan on starting with Avadon 1 then moving on to 2, so these questions are aimed at both games, essentially the series in general

 

1 - I'm new to the series but not at all new to rpg's in general, I tend to start rpg's on the hardest difficulty but is that a bad idea with this series? Does the hardest difficulty require a narrow range of builds and tactics to succeed at? Or is it really no different than most other rpg's (i.e if you have a good understanding of the game and strategize well, many different builds can work)

 

2 - So as I understand it, max party size is three, with whichever companions you don't bring with you chilling out at Avadon. Can I completely ignore the two I don't choose, or will the game punish me for doing so (i.e tailoring battles to all but force you to rotate all four companions in and out, or actually forcing you to use them all at one point or another)

 

3 - Is playing on the iPad much different than on the pc? I'd like to get the iPad version but if it's significantly worse in any way, i'll go for pc

 

Cheers

[Jerakeen]

1 - If you plan to play on Torment, you will probably have to optimize your character builds. Fortunately, there is a retrainer available, so you don't have to start over if you have regrets. For most classes, the center branch of the skill tree will be essential for survival at the toughest difficulty. Also, some monsters will get extra attacks on Torment - it can get pretty crazy. But you can always change the difficulty mid-game.

 

2 - You can mostly ignore the NPCs you don't want, except that each of them has one quest they'll insist on joining you for. Unused NPCs will level up while they're waiting, so you don't need to worry about that. There are some fights that may be easier with certain classes, but most of them should be beatable with most combinations.

 

3 - Secret door switches are almost impossible to see in the iPad version (this will be better in Av2). Movement and targeting can be a little tricky with the touch screen, but really it's quite playable.

[AzuredreamsXT]

Is the setting below torment challenging? Most rpg's I find are fleshed out enough to allow many different builds to work even on the hardest setting, but if I need to use specific builds for torment in Avadon i'd rather just play the next lowest setting, or not play at all if my options are either challenge with specific builds or no challenge but freedom to go with your own build.

 

Also, so if I play on iPad, I will likely be missing alot of these secret door switches? I didn't see this mentioned in iPad reviews I checked out, will this be a pain for me? What does missing these switches mean gameplay wise?

[Dear Potato]

Is the setting below torment challenging? Most rpg's I find are fleshed out enough to allow many different builds to work even on the hardest setting, but if I need to use specific builds for torment in Avadon i'd rather just play the next lowest setting, or not play at all if my options are either challenge with specific builds or no challenge but freedom to go with your own build.

 

Also, so if I play on iPad, I will likely be missing alot of these secret door switches? I didn't see this mentioned in iPad reviews I checked out, will this be a pain for me? What does missing these switches mean gameplay wise?

 

Then, by all means, I suggest you to play in Hard difficulty (one step before Torment, that does not allow, in my opinion, the "build freedom" you are after).

 

In the hard difficulty setting things get tougher and tougher as game develops, but you can beat every battle, even the secondary-extremely-demanding ones with every build you can imagine. I recently played in Hard with two sorceress and one shaman, trying to make builds different from usual; the game was challenging, but never impossible. Keep in mind, though, that the first two missions are relatively easy. But, from that point, things start to get messy.

 

Secret switches are basically bonus prizes and extra objects. In a few cases, detecting the switches is necessary for completing secondary quests. Right now, though, I'm not sure if any part of the main quest requires to see them...

[AzuredreamsXT]

Hmm, well if in Hard you can succeed with every build imaginable (including ridiculous ones), I would hope that any sensible build, played skillfully, could handle Torment, no? I was planning on going Shaman as main (specialized in the summoning branch), with the tank companion (blade something) and the rogue companion (shadow something), with the tank developed as a balanced fighter/meatshield and the rogue specialized in evasion (alot of dex) and offense. I don't know much of the skill trees yet so I can't get more specific but that was the general plan.

 

Fine for torment? Or should I go for hard

[Dear Potato]

Fine for torment? Or should I go for hard

 

You can try to play on Torment and see if you are confortable with it; at any point in the game, you can switch to lower difficulties without restarting.

[Kelandon]

There is clear best way to improve the skills (raise Dexterity much more than anything else, focus on range missile weapons, get the skills relevant to that, get the skills that allow for critical hits, get the rest of the middle column, then get whatever additional abilities you want, generally raising any skill to 7 before starting to raise any other skill).

 

Torment is very hard with anything too different from that. You can do Hard with a little more variety, but you'll have to try it and see. Don't be afraid to drop the difficulty level if it gets ridiculous. Also, the retrainer is available only about halfway through the game, so you have to get there first.

 

(I've always thought that was a dumb decision, by the way. Why not have the retrainer available immediately?)

[Jerakeen]

I forgot to mention the other drawback to using a tablet, but it may not apply to you. In the Mac and PC versions, you can edit the scripts to do things like making lockpicks and secret switches stand out more (because they're pretty hard to see there too), and you can even download a character editor for serious cheating. As far as I know, the iPad scripts can't be edited.

 

Doesn't sound like cheating is your cup of tea anyway, but I thought I'd mention it. And honestly, the lockpicks and switches are a design error — it doesn't feel like cheating to correct them.

[Randomizer]

Jeff, starting with Avadon and Avernum: Escape from the Pit, changed the way he differentiated difficulty levels. In earlier games he just applied a multiplier to all monster stats so fights just took longer. Now monsters gain abilities at harder levels and some extra health. So you see monsters getting more attacks per round and more spells or spell-like abilities to use against you.

 

There are 5 places in the game where you have to fight by yourself. The first is at the start and two are optional. So you also have to plan for how you will fight without help by using items and summoned monsters.

[AzuredreamsXT]

Hmm, between this and my thread in Avadon 2 I've had some conflicting reports which are confusing

 

Some claim torment requires min maxy/gamey builds, others that most builds can work on torment. In Baldur's Gate 2 I played hardest difficulty with a party of three and very specialized (narrow) character roles, and was fine (no min maxing). In Dragon Age I played hardest again, using no healers at all, and still beat the game. I mention these only as a reference, I feel like those games are big enough to allow more flexibility with tactics and to allow you to go grind elsewhere if a particular challenge is currently outside of your ability to handle. Avadon being a much smaller game (I assume) does not allow for those options does it?

 

Also, regarding these hidden switches, are they like impossible to see on iPad? If I miss them, do I miss out on serious rewards and/or good side quests? What is Jeff's solution to the problem? (besides hacking the game or cheating in some way)

 

Thanks for all the info and advice

[Randomizer]

Torment requires most party characters to be min/max, but not all. Also it doesn't require that you have to have a certain class in the party, just that it is easier to play with a tinkermage.

 

Avadon 1: The Black Fortress on iPad and tablet had hard to see hidden switches, but they were hard to see on regular computers. The iPad version of Avadon 2 is under development so there is time to fix the problem.

[Kelandon]

Avadon is more vulnerable to a very specific path than Avadon 2 is, as far as I can tell from my initial playing of Avadon 2. The game mechanics are different.

 

EDIT: Also, the hidden switches are hard but not impossible to see, and it's just a matter of a few cool items that you can sometimes grab if you find them, for the most part. You can also kind of guess where they are. Not a big deal.

[Lilith]

My advice: with the tactical skills you describe, you will absolutely be able to get at least up to the retrainer in Avadon 1 even with a suboptimal party. After that, the difference between an optimal and suboptimal party starts to get larger, but by then you'll have a better idea of what's optimal and you'll be able to respec your party accordingly if necessary.

 

Also, as people have told you, you can always dial the difficulty up or down during play, so there's no point engaging in too much hand-wringing about what difficulty to begin on. Just stick the difficulty level on Torment for starters and keep it there for as long as you're still enjoying the game!

[Alorael at Large]

In fact, you can do well with a pretty bad party on torment for a while. The beginning is just plain easy, regardless of difficulty. As things ramp up you can tailor your party and the difficulty to your tastes on the fly.

 

—Alorael, who would rather see you just play and report back the answers to your questions for posterity.

[Painted Lady]

First, regarding playing on the iPad. While the hidden switches are not easy to find, they are not impossible (with one exception) if you have an iPad with the retina display. If your iPad is not a 3 or higher, those switches are going to be pretty tough to spot. The exception I mentioned earlier is a switch that is probably hard to spot on any computer.

 

My experience with Avadon I was that I felt it was not so interesting on Normal because it was too easy. Hard was challenging after the first couple of chapters, and Torment got very tough at the end. If you want to go through the first time without leaning on the forums, Hard will probably be okay. Let us know what you think of the final battle!

[AzuredreamsXT]

Torment it is then! I'll sooner admit defeat to the game and quit then lower the difficulty midway through, so wish me luck!

 

Also, general tips would be appreciated before I head in if anyone has any to share. Nothing spoilery though please

[AzuredreamsXT]

Man, Jerakeen, your avatar pic freaks me out lol. What is that thing, and where is it from?

[Akhari Blaze]

If you've got the habit of playing RPGs on the hardest difficulty level, I don't see why you should play it on hard, and maybe repent later. I played it on torment from the start and I won every fight, also killed Redbeard, and one (optional) dragon fight was insanely difficult, but most of the game wasn't, just the right difficulty if you have some RPG experience. Just read some tips for character building (with 4 stats there isn't much room for confusion) and go for torment I'd say... at least you'll have some fun in the tough fights.

[Lilith]

Also, general tips would be appreciated before I head in if anyone has any to share. Nothing spoilery though please

 

Shadowwalker is probably the best class for the main character, because there are a couple of sections of the game where you have to go solo and the shadowwalker is the most versatile and self-sufficient class. He's the only class who can both pick locks and self-heal, and he can achieve excellent durability thanks to his good armour options and a strong defensive passive skill. The sorceress is also a solid choice, although she'll need to use scarabs or consumable items to heal herself in battle, and a few enemies are immune to her primary damage type, which can be a nuisance. The blademaster is strong in combat, but the lack of a lockpicking skill means that locked doors in solo areas will be hard to get open. The shaman has lots of good healing and support skills but doesn't do so well without other party members to heal and support, and has even more problems than the Sorceress with enemies being immune to her attacks; like the blademaster, the shaman also has no lockpicking skill.

[Jerakeen]

Man, Jerakeen, your avatar pic freaks me out lol. What is that thing, and where is it from?

 

That is Franz Scortchmaw. He's just had his wake-up jolt and he's feeling pretty good.

 

For more information, see Girl Genius.

[stranger]

Shadowwalker is probably the best class for the main character

For the first game, and I'd recommend the Tinkermage for the second: lockpicking, two turret summons(!), and either turret versatility or ranged skills.

[Lilith]

 

For the first game, and I'd recommend the Tinkermage for the second: lockpicking, two turret summons(!), and either turret versatility or ranged skills.

 

The same poster actually made a different thread in the Avadon 2 forum for Avadon 2 advice.

[MMXPERT-seraph of thermodynamics]

My thought on difficulty.

 

if you want the story, go normal.

 

If you want the game, go hard.

 

If you want the challenge, go torment.

 

In fact, this is how you get better at spiderweb games, start each game nice and easy, and then master it on your own progressively.

[Alorael at Large]

If you just want the story, play on the lowest difficulty. If you want the greatest challenge, play on the highest.

 

If you want the most fun, determine where that is for you. Everyone has a different level of Spiderweb skill, a different tolerance for frustration and reloading when you die, and willingness to min-max obsessively. The best way to play the game is entirely up to you.

 

—Alorael, who mostly plays on normal. And it's mostly not a huge challenge, but there are fights he has to replay. That's how he enjoys playing most. He's also cheated in games, sometimes. He's enjoyed those too.