What Do You Think Will Be Canon For Avadon 2?

[Shogo]

Just felt like seeing what some of the others on these forums thought about how many of the things you could actually influence in Avadon will be canon for Avadon 2.

 

I'm already going to assume that the optional boss fights never happened . . . Which means we'll probably be seeing something of the demon Belloch and the dragon Zephyrine. (We already know Redbeard wasn't killed.)

 

I'm hoping that Dorhal Stead didn't get wiped out.

 

I think it's probable that Duke Gryfyn was spared, just to serve as an enemy to a loyalist in A2 . . . Even if that makes it more than likely that the PC tried and failed to kill Redbeard.

 

While I'm personally hoping that the PC was loyal and managed to convince the others to stay loyal . . . I'm pretty much prepared to find out the entire party was killed for defying Redbeard. Although it would be interesting if the PC's companions managed to get away, and you get to meet them as important rebels that have sworn to avenge the PC of A1. (I just want to see them again.)

 

A big part of why I don't think the PC stayed loyal is the simple fact that I don't think the PC of any Spiderweb game has shown up for any of the sequels. I personally wouldn't mind Jeff making up an NPC to represent A1's PC. Hell, I actually think it would be pretty cool as long as they were a powerful enemy. (If you decided to fight them, naturally.)

 

----------------------

 

And just on a tangent . . . I can't help but wonder if A2 might have the first attempts at romance in a Spiderweb game. I was probably reading way too into it, but I swear it felt to me that, so long as you're supportive of her, Nathalie was developing feelings for the PC.

 

She'll embrace you when you find her during her companion quest, at one point you can have random chatter with her that involves her taking your arm as you enjoy a pleasant stroll whilst looking for things to kill, and where the other companions tend to stay loyal to you by saying you and them are doing the right thing . . . Nathalie says she doesn't care what you do, she'll follow you no matter what.

[Goldengirl]

I'd be surprised if we revisited any of the places we say in the first Avadon game, except obviously Avadon itself. As such, I doubt that the demon or the dragon will enter into the game at all, except perhaps as references to what's going on. My guess is that the party stayed loyal, but the PC is mysteriously missing for whatever reason. That's the way things tend to play out in Spiderweb games, rather than the PCs being explicitly killed. Dhoral Stead will probably be gone, and even if it isn't, I don't think there will be a return visit.

 

Duke Gryfyn probably managed to escape assassination by the PC. I'd like to see him reappear.

[Alorael at Large]

All that's known from the mess that descended on the Black Fortress is that a group of Hands went in and were never heard of again. Some think Redbeard picked them for the most secretive work; others are sure he killed them himself. The man himself isn't talking.

 

That's my prediction.

 

—Alorael, who also predicts that Sylak and some of his sidhe will show up unexpectedly. He can hope, right?

[Randomizer]

You arrive as a new Hand and get sent down to the dungeons to do pest control. After talking to Redbeard you get a chance to do some spying for Callan. Then it's off to see a new area.

[Painted Lady]

I'll bet your new job is given to you by Nathalie, who has become Redbeard's top assistant. Also, I'll bet you eventually do battle with Heart Miranda, who has joined the Taewon empire.

[Earth]

Land of whatever it is isn't that big that we wouldn't visit some places which we visited in Avadon 1 in Avadon 2 too but I think only familiar char will be Redbeard and that 1st dragon.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Land of whatever it is isn't that big that we wouldn't visit some places which we visited in Avadon 1 in Avadon 2 too but I think only familiar char will be Redbeard and that 1st dragon.

 

I disagree. There are 11 named areas on the map (not counting Avadon itself). The player in Avadon 1 visited 4 of them (kind of 5, since a couple of the missions around the Beraza woods seemed to be closer to Holklanda than Kellemderiel). The PCs in Avadon 2 could spend their time in Dharam, the Wyldrylm, the Corruption, and the Tawon Empire, for instance.

[Shogo]

I hope we don't have to see Zethron again. If I've learned anything about Avadon dragons, it's that every single one of them must die. Though I don't imagine the Pact would actually do that . . . It seemed to me that the majority of their enemies only continue to exist because the Pact needs Farlanders to hate, because that's the only thing keeping the Pact together. Hence that speech where Redbeard refuses to ever accept anyone else joining the Pact, no matter how genuine. The one where he gives the hypothetical scenario of a Khemmerian leader willing to secede from Khemmeria and rejoin the Wyldrylm. (The Pact seems like it could easily divide the entire continent between it's members . . . But then it's only remaining enemies would be each other.)

 

Also . . . I'm fully expecting to hate the Wyldrylm if the people you meet in A1 that call that place home are any indication of what it's like. (Hell, Jenell was the companion I liked the least. Favorite? Probably Shima.)

[Death Knight]

I like this thread. I am also very much interested in more romance plot type stuff in game. Im not saying it has to go like Dragon Age where it was a practual brothel in each camp, but still would be interesting if there was a bg type romance which would be cool.

[Sudanna]

Jeff hasn't written a PC romance yet, I doubt he'd start now.

[Randomizer]

Alwan and Miranda in Geneforge 4 was off screen.

 

Wait that's NPC romance.

[Goldengirl]

There has been plenty of NPC romance - lords and ladies, husbands and wives, etc. However, no series has seen PC relationships. In Exile/Avernum and Nethergate, this makes sense, given that you control a party of adventurers. In Geneforge, though there was always just one PC (and however many creations/tag-alongs), that PC was normally going insane slowly due to canister usage. In Avadon, neither of these barriers are in the way, although I wouldn't be surprised if Redbeard discourages relationships. He wants your full loyalty.

[Shogo]

Yeah. It's really speculation for the sake of speculation . . . Based on nothing more than me thinking Nathalie develops a crush on you if you never tell her to take her ambition and shove it.

 

*shrugs* If someone is THAT desperate for romance, with the scripting system of Jeff's games, you could just insert your own if you wanted to.

[Thycavivor]

I never saw Nathalie as having feelings for anyone except herself. Seriously, that woman had a massive case of NPD.

[Valdain the King]

Nathalie was beautiful and is my kind of woman. She is strong-natured, a naturally ally for good, and she just has an awesome personality. Usually warriors are the brave ones so she is definitely a gem. I hope that if she survives the next game, you can get a chance to find out more about her.

 

Shima is cool but is a little annoying and not my favorite. Sevelin on the other hand is one of the only characters that has a normal flaw and is cool. Jenell is arrogant, thinks shes above redbeard and smells funy.

 

We really need to have a jester as a playable class. Only then will the game be even more awesom.

[Acky]

I'm anticipating that the PC and your party will remain loyal to Redbeard. From my experience the option to rebel felt a bit tacked on, never really as fleshed out as it could have been. I remember reading Jeff plans on improving this. I'd also wager that we're going to get a new ending that takes from the events you can make from the first game,

 

And, the actual ending to Avadon is pretty much the same. The only significant difference is whether your in charge of Avadon or not; everything else is more or less reduced to how strong Avadon's enemies are. But other than that, there isn't a ton of variation. The Pact is still in turmoil no matter way, the Kellem and Holklanda are on the brink of war, the Farlanders are getting more aggressive. In retrospect, only the Kva seems to be significantly different depending on whether or not you end up killing Zepherine (Zephrine? Zephrene? The blue thing). From all indications Jeff is planning on expanding this, which is what I'm most excited about.

 

As for the PC/Party returning, I would wager so. I personally predict Jenall and possible Sevelin are going to defect, while Shima and Nathalie will decide to remain in Avadon. The PC..hard to say. I'm hoping he/she doesn't just disappear. Perhaps take him/her off screen, still working for Avadon, just not participating in the same missions as you. Hell, if Jeff goes that route, I'd really love it if the first PC ties back into the story, helping the second PC in more roundabout ways.

[eaintree]

A showdown with Miranda is inevitable. Nathalie reappearing I'd lay good odds on, and Zetheron will I imagine have a plot-oriented role to play, i.e., appease him or he'll ally with the Tawon against the Pact. Duke Gryfyn will probably be around.

[cremornagainagain]

A showdown with Miranda is inevitable. Nathalie reappearing I'd lay good odds on...

 

...for Nathalie, see screenshot 4 of 8 here: http://www.spiderweb...don2/shots.html (wait! who is that cloaked figure?!!??)

...for Miranda, yes I suppose she will be a leader of Avadon's opposition. I never got the dialogue about finding her secrets during the rat hunt to work satisfactorily. She is a complex character. I think I will reload and try and find the part where she asks you to join her at the end.

[Davies]

...for Nathalie, see screenshot 4 of 8 here: http://www.spiderweb...don2/shots.html (wait! who is that cloaked figure?!!??)

 

Um, the blonde with the staff is not Nathalie, she wears her hair differently. The blademaster in that picture does look a bit like the PC blademaster, though. (The cloaked figure is probably just someone walking guard beside the corpse wagon.)

[Painted Lady]

Um, the blonde with the staff is not Nathalie, she wears her hair differently. The blademaster in that picture does look a bit like the PC blademaster, though. (The cloaked figure is probably just someone walking guard beside the corpse wagon.)

Actually, it looks to me like a new artist is doing Avadon II. If that is the case I wouldn't expect all the characters to look identical in the two games. Could be wrong of course, but the basic artistic style looks different to me.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Um, the blonde with the staff is not Nathalie, she wears her hair differently.

People can change hairstyles, you know.

[cremornagainagain]

http://www.spiderweb...don2/shots.html

It's Nathalie and Sevilin. She injured her right arm on her ambition quest, remember? It never got better cos she's too Alpha to waste time with puny healing-types.

 

Sevilin to Redbeard "Hey look I'm sorry and everything about your castle but it wasn't us, alright?"

[eaintree]

My first thought was, no, this blonde is much harsher-looking than Nathalie would ever get... but then again, she *could* if she never had the arm healed properly, and if it's not her Jeff has no reason to give this blonde an injured arm...

[Death Knight]

My guess is that Redbeard wont "die" until late Avadon 3 and likely will be based on your choices or overwhelming odds. I really think that aside from Greta, there hasn't been any other npc/main type character that has had such a big impact on the story in these games. Greta is probably the only really tough/cool character that has made it in 3 games, other than Alwan who is basically changed in the last installment.

 

I really don't know much about Avernum series, so far the only character who is awesome and I cant stop reading dialogue from is Captain Johnson (fort duvno-Ave1). His face turns into a wicked grin-"Vicious vermin, I'd love to strangle every one of them." Such a funny line even though he has such a small part.

[Forget it]

"Stay a while and listen," the grizzled war veteran spake gently, yet intently, to one of the new Hands, a recent arrival from the Kva. In these trying times, no land save perhaps for Dharam had proven as steadfast in its loyalty to the black fortress, a curious thing considering that Dharam is the furthest Pact territory from Avadon of them all. Ah, but today is no lesson in the politics of the East.

 

"You are to travel to the Beraza Woods, but I won't have you going out there blind," Heart Tristram sat the new recruit down for deposition. "It's too delicate, and..." his eyes briefly betray a hint of emotion, though which one you cannot tell - "and let us say that subterfuge has cost the pact dearly in recent times. Our dealings will be direct, yes?" He unfurls a map highlighting the most recently known intricacies of the ever-shifting borders and immediately extends a gauntlet-laden finger over Castle Vebeaux. "This castle... these woods, they are... they were Kellem lands." The word Kellem rolls off his tongue with moderate distaste. Holklanda took them in the civil war. No, not this one - the last one. Held them for a mere handful of years until the Pact asserted control over the Black Age. Still, they wouldn't hand them back over. But Lynaeus has never seen a war where territory hasn't changed hands; this is the nature of things. Two enemies, bound as allies, But as you know, this no longer is the case."

 

1) So will Holklanda keep the Beraza woods now?

--Impossible. When the whole north of Kellemderiel left us to ally with the Tawon Empire, the woods remained in our purvey... but to give them to Holklanda would ignite a war that we cannot afford right now.

 

2) We are ceding the woods to the Farland Kellem?

--Nonsense. Hanvar's Council was only finally able to calk the Holklandans down from their unrest once most of the Kellem seceded. To cast the woods out of our dominion would bring great unrest there, while in truth Avadon's gaze needs to be, for now, fixed upon the south.

 

3) So why am I going to Beraza?

--I'm glad you asked. Redbeard cannot risk leaving those woods untended, or beneath our gaze, but the politics are quite delicate, you see. Beraza is too small to call a nation all its own, so it is to become a freehold... of sorts. Not free from Avadon, of course. You will meet Hand Shima Threespear and Hand Nathalie there for further instructions. Shima's clan has been given the right to settle there in exchange for their renewed commitment to Avadon, as have the Kellem who did not wish to follow Lord Gryfyn in his abandonment of the Pact. Those two have experience working together... if anybody can get the Kellem and Holklandan kind to run a government together, it is those two.

...

 

It has been weeks now since that first exchange and to their credit, the new team of Hands has made remarkable progress in establishing local and obedient rule in the Beraza Province. The Holklandans value honor. The Kellem value ceremony and prestige. Those things aren't all too different; the two cultures have more in common than either of them deign to admit. Though they must keep vigilant for Tawon infiltration, the success has been a much needed reprieve for Redbeard whose attention is really needed in the South. And the East. And the... well, everywhere. There is a tense, illusory peace, but Avadon is not fooled. Neither is its enemies. That Kellemderiel was able to leave the pact at all has sent a chilling message out into Lynaeus. The walls have been rebuilt. Warriors from all over are lining up to become Hands. But the message lingers: Avadon can be defied. It has been defied. The Titans and the beasts of the Corruption grow more daring by the day. Mysterious forces of the Tawon are ever plotting. And as Redbeard sat in contemplation, moving Eyes and Hands in his desperate attempt to hold the lines in the Wyldrym and counter the machinations of Dheless, the unthinkable happened. Or perhaps the not-so-unthinkable, since there was an infiltration barely a year ago. But this was different.

 

A mage waves his hand and suddenly hundreds of soldiers appear at the north face of the black fortress, armed with catapaults, magic tricks, and... a dragon? In times past, such a force would have been detected when it was days away, but much capability was lost with the last incident, a "reward" for Redbeard's admitted complacency. He has refocused himself since, but alas the defenses had not yet been entirely rebuilt, and the enemy still had reason to be bold. "South!" Redbeard commanded a retreat into the Kva lands, unwilling to risk scrambling a hasty defense and lose much of his personnel to another assault. Enchanted boulders smashed into the side of the black fortress and a dragon unleashed its fiery rage. The evacuation had been forced. Avadon was shattered. As its warriors readied themselves to regroup and defend what seemed like it may have been the Pact's final hours, something unexpected set in play: a massive, powerful dragon flew up from the south and crushed the invading force beneath it. The attacking dragon seemed no more than a drake compared to this heroic creature, and the catapaults were soon crushed, the wizards and archers soon scorched to cinder.

 

It was Zhethron. The dragon landed in Redbeard's path and would not let him pass. "An audience, I insist," it thundered. While the mighty Zhethron had indeed tired of the pact failing it, it was even more crass at the blatant disruptions that has been sent against it by the Tawon and their allies. The Pact had at least tried to appease him, he reasoned, however incompetently. "I have suffered your human affairs for long enough. I am not concerned with your coins and trinkets", he snarled, "when my honor is on the line." True, dragons are a proud species. "I will keep these Tawon away from your keep. But you will cease failing to keep my lair unharmed. Fail me this and my final patience will have been exhausted."

 

There was little choice but to take the dragon's offer. Now Avadon must focus on restoring its fortress yet again and battling against beasts and ogres, when it should be fully focused elsewhere. There are dark times for Avadon, perhaps too dark. But is there a glimmer of hope? Perhaps our new heroes, finally returning from Beraza to a newly re-battered Avadon, will have the answer to that...

[mouton]

A big part of why I don't think the PC stayed loyal is the simple fact that I don't think the PC of any Spiderweb game has shown up for any of the sequels.

 

Geneforge 5 features a person who *might* have been a protagonist from G2 or G4 or whatnot. But yeah, Jeff prefers the scorched earth approach towards past heroes. If Mass Effect taught us anything, it is a sound strategy (: