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Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?


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Niemand Niemand

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:06 PM #36 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I would be happy to help with testing, although I haven't quite managed to get the groundwork in order yet: I've compiled and installed Mono, but so far I can't get it actually to work. It looks like to get anything graphical to run Mono actually needs a bunch of other stuff installed, and so far I haven't quite been able to figure out how to get glib without all of GTK+, which I would prefer to avoid. I'll take another shot at it tomorrow (since I probably just need to use Google more effectively to find the appropriate tarball).

Hopefully I'll get that working soon, so if you have something you would like tested feel free to send it to niemandcw(at)gmail(dot)com with instructions for what you want done.
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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:51 AM #37 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

View Post&#958, on 16 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

I have a Mac, but I have no idea what Mono is.

Mono is the open source framework that lets programs written in C# and similar languages run on non-Windows systems.

I chose C# specifically for that purpose. Otherwise the project would have to be divided in two - one version for Windows users, and one for Macintosh. That would mean two development branches, two UI styles, two downloads, ect. With Mono everyone can use the exact same program which means that, for the most part, everyone will have the same features and experience regardless of their OS.

Of course, it means that Mac users will need to have Mono installed to use my editor. Hopefully that won't put too many people off.

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:37 PM #38 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

That's not really what I was getting at. I'm willing to test, but only if Mono is easy to install. If Mono is not easy to install, then you may need to rethink what you're doing.
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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:41 AM #39 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I don't think Mono is difficult to install, but I believe it requires Xquartz, which would make using the editor on a Mac a mildly annoying exercise.
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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:16 PM #40 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

It seems like Mono may be a bit of an annoyance, but it's the best I can do. I couldn't begin to write a native app so something mostly cross platform is the next best thing. I'm really trying to make an effort to let this be available to everyone rather than just tying it to my platform of choice.

While I don't know about Macs, I have used Mono extensively on linux systems and they're distantly related in the end. It shouldn't be all that difficult to install, going by my own experiences.

That aside, I'm nearly ready to attempt the testing I mentioned before. I can't say when it will be ready, but mostly I'm just cleaning up a few obvious bugs before I inflict it on anyone else. Its core logic is all done, however.

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:42 AM #41 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

So another update: my idea didn't work. What I thought would be a simple problem managed to derail everything. I guess that's what I get for experimenting. The tests I mentioned before aren't very useful if I can't even get it to work properly on Windows. Gah.

I've shelved that particular bit of code. I may try it again later, but for now I'm just going to make a simpler, WinForms-only model. Mono claims to fully emulate WinForms, so as long as I stick to that it should cross over hassle free. It won't be very pretty, but it'll get the job done I'm thinking.

So, rather than try to untangle what I have from my failed experiment, I've been rewriting everything while copying over what works so far, which is most of the logic for the various scenario objects. Another small setback, but I've got a much firmer grasp on exactly how I want everything to work, taking into account what didn't work out right before.

Overall, things are on track. I'll keep things updated as I get closer to an actual working version.

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:57 PM #42 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Good to hear that you're still working on it. I'm impressed that you've made it this far.
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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:13 AM #43 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I do like to think I'm fairly stubborn when it comes down to things like this. One little setback isn't the end of the world, it's just an excuse to find new solutions. I love challenges, hehe.

So, I need a bit of information. Could someone provide screenshots or otherwise make available the directory structure of BoA when installed on a Mac? The editor tries to find the main executable (or at least a file with the correct name) to determine if it's located the installation directory, and then accesses the resources from there. That would be "Blades of Avernum.exe" on Windows, but I have no idea what it would be on a Mac, and if there's an equivalent to the "Data" directory on a Mac I'd need to see that too. I've found a way to determine which OS it's running on, so a lot of the things like this can be automated nicely once I know how it's all laid out.

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:21 AM #44 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Posted Image
Note:  The application itself (Blades of Avernum v1.2.1) has the extension .app on the end which is automatically hidden in the GUI and is itself technically a folder containing more files, like so:
Posted Image

Sorry, for the slightly blurry text.  I had to resize the images due to my retina display.
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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:26 AM #45 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Wonderful, thanks! I think that fairly soon I'll see if some people can run what I have so far and have it start up properly. If it starts, that means it will have been able to properly locate BoA, set up its directory tree, and install all of the resources it'll need. Seems like a good first step. At the moment, it'll assume that it's being run from the main installation directory (the "Blades of Avernum" directory) and if it's not, a browser will appear asking for its location. Simple enough I'm thinking.

Once I know the basics are taken care of I'll be able to move on the the nicer things.

At this point, all I need to do is finalize the basic implementation of its resource management system and it'll be ready to test. Which means likely a day at most. I'll be out of town this weekend but I should be able to work on my laptop, so expect to see something soon.

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 01:56 PM #46 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Just a note to Speed-O-Fie, if you're looking for your questions and answers, they've been moved to general.

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:53 PM #47 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Testers needed!

I finally have something! It's still just a test, though I'd like to get at many people to try it out as possible. It doesn't actually do anything but I'll be able to make sure some of the big things I have planned can work. Once I am reasonably certain that no gigantic bugs are there, I'll be able to finish up the actual editor without worrying about the core functionality failing.

So, if you'd like to help, just download the test program here:
http://dl.dropbox.co...AEditorTest.zip

All you need to do is run it, get the log file, then email it to me. I'd prefer testing on a Mac, but Windows tests will be good as well.

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:20 AM #48 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I tried to install Mono and run it, but it froze as it was verifying the application. I'm not sure whether it's my install of Mono being improper or your application not working, but I emailed the log file.

You're going to want to figure out how to have it being a double-clickable app on a Mac, rather than something you have to open from the command line.
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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:49 AM #49 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

So, I feel dumb. Turns out the code I used to handle making the log file isn't actually supported by Mono. It just crashes. So, I'm rewriting my own, definitely supported alternative.

As for making a double clickable app... maybe. I think it could possibly be possible to make a very, very simple Mac app that would function as a launcher. That seems trivial enough, though I couldn't really compile it or anything.

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:12 AM #50 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I think the first priority should be getting it to work. Then you can add a .app wrapper. I think making such a wrapper isn't terribly difficult.
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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:47 AM #51 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Huh. There's a tool devoted specifically toward detecting Mono compatibility problems. So, I used it, fixed some other things that apparently aren't supported, and got a (hopefully) working version. It can be found here:

https://dl.dropbox.c...orTestFixed.zip

Considering the whole point of this test is identifying compatibility issues, the fact it didn't work is actually a good sign!

As an aside for programmer types, anyone have a clue why memory mapped files wouldn't be supported by Mono? Seems like a bizarre thing to not handle given they're supported by most major operating systems. Oh well.

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:40 AM #52 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Tried it again, got the scroll wheel of death, had to force quit. Sent the new log.
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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:03 PM #53 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I've managed to track the problem down to the display of message boxes. It looks like that isn't supported across operating systems. I'll remove the messages and see if that lets it run properly.

EDIT:

Okay, I've removed the message boxes and updated the file. It can be redownloaded at the previous link. Now, it should either work or just close itself. Either way, the log will tell me of any issues.

Ishad Nha Ishad Nha

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:02 PM #54 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

BoAScenEditor.exe
I tried on Windows XP and I got a Net Framework initialization error, I needed
v4.0.30319 Net Framework. It seems I need to update mine.

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:46 PM #55 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

More fatal errors.

Oh hey, wait, I did it again and now it's not dying. It didn't do anything, but it didn't crash, either.
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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:43 AM #56 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

View PostIshad Nha, on 23 March 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

BoAScenEditor.exe
I tried on Windows XP and I got a Net Framework initialization error, I needed
v4.0.30319 Net Framework. It seems I need to update mine.

With any Windows version since XP, .NET v4.0 is automatically installed. Before that, you have to do it manually at the Microsoft website. Takes just a few minutes. I think I'll probably include the distributable installer whenever this thing gets closer to working properly just for those that need it.


Well, I'm realizing that there's just no support whatsoever for some fairly basic features so I'm having to make alternatives. Definitely a good thing this is coming out at this point rather than later.

I think it might be good for anyone that tests to also give me a copy of the EditorConfig.dat file. It has some more information that might be helpful. As it is, once I can get the test program to work everywhere, I'll be ready to make the real thing.

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:22 AM #57 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I am having major issues with the speed of my internet connection, I am pursuing this issue with my ISP. Until this is fixed I won't be able to easily update.
For dotNetFx40_Full_setup.exe, the link is:
http://www.microsoft...s.aspx?id=17851

Running BoAScenEditor.exe lead to a simple screen:
(Image deleted, it is no longer needed.)

I take it this indicates success for a test on Windows XP. The RGB color bars are split in half, is that meant to happen?

Contents of trace_634999248243177500.log:
*** Program started at 26/03/2013 20:00:24 ***
Host OS
  Operating System: Microsoft Windows NT 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3
  PlatformID: Win32NT
Loading config files...
Initial Setup
Setting up the environment...
Made directory tree
Printed scripts
Blades of Avernum located at C:\Program Files\Blades of Avernum
Detected OS: Windows
ARGB Format: 0xFFAABBCC


Contents of EditorConfig.dat file:
[String]
directory.bladesInstallation C:\Program Files\Blades of Avernum
system.os Windows

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:03 AM #58 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Yes, if you see that screen, the test was successful. Thanks!

The colored bars were supposed to be split. The left has three solid colors, while the right has a gradient. I've mostly been worried that the colors could get mixed up between platforms, though it's looking like all of them use the same ARGB format which simplifies my job quite a bit. I can remove some unnecessary code that should speed up loading and converting images greatly.


I've been putting together one last version using input from ξ that should be fully compatible with both operating systems. Once it's done, I'd appreciate it if you could try it again as I don't have access to an XP machine to test this on. I definitely want to make sure this will run in as many places as possible.

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:36 PM #59 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I have one last version to try out. Barring some new issue, it should work. I've had to make my own dialogs, so with this one you should especially run it in a directory other than Blades of Avernum to make sure the folder browser is functional. It should also be able to better handle error conditions so if anything does go wrong it should do more than just hang.

It can be downloaded here:
https://dl.dropbox.c...AScenEditor.zip

While waiting for results on this I'm starting preliminary work on the editor itself. At the very least I've figured out what to avoid when it's running on Mono. I don't really have any sort of an ETA there, but I should have something soon.

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:36 PM #60 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Yeah, this isn't getting as far before it crashes.
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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:02 AM #61 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

This time it was run from its own directory: "C:\Program Files\BoAScenEditor", it found the BoA installation successfully.
I have uploaded a new version of picture:
(Image deleted, it is no longer needed.)

Note how the color bars are now uniform, not split into halves.
Contents of EditorConfig.dat file:
[String]
directory.bladesInstallation C:\Program Files\Blades of Avernum
system.os Windows

Contents of trace_635000206741093750.log
*** Program started at 27/03/2013 22:37:54 ***
Host OS
  Operating System: Microsoft Windows NT 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3
  PlatformID: Win32NT
Loading config files...
Initial Setup
Setting up the environment...
Made directory tree
Printed scripts
Blades of Avernum located at C:\Program Files\Blades of Avernum
Detected OS: Windows
ARGB Format: 0xFFAABBCC
Image conversion took 8.2619 milliseconds.
Resource access took 45.9712 milliseconds.
Startup complete with no errors.

Edited by Ishad Nha, 29 July 2013 - 09:24 PM.


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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:00 PM #62 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

i'm not sure whether it's my system (winxp sp3 32 bit), folder structure (F:\games\avernum\blades_of_avernum) or game installation (installed some years ago, survived few system wipes and reinstalls), but the editor can't detect my boa copy no matter how many times i point it to its folder.

even if the editor's placed in the same folder as Blades of Avernum.exe it still can't detect it.

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:25 PM #63 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

One, it is looking for the main BoA folder, not a program.
Two, if that does not solve the problem, create a new BoA installation at this address:
C:\Program Files\Blades of Avernum
Then run the test program again.

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:03 PM #64 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Quote

C:\Program Files\Blades of Avernum
funny, i copied the folder there and renamed it, and it worked. afterwards, when i renamed my original folder from blades_of_avernum to Blades of Avernum it started working there too.

it doesn't seem to accept any custom naming of the game's folder, it has to be exactly "Blades of Avernum" or it'll fail. the error message could mention that. i assumed it checks for the exe because of one of the posts above that said it'll check for the exe to confirm the game's presence, not the game folder's name.

Quote

The editor tries to find the main executable (or at least a file with the correct name) to determine if it's located the installation directory, and then accesses the resources from there.

installing the game allows you to change the folder name, so maybe this kind of detection isn't the best since that can be easily customized.

the editor works fine now.

*** Program started at 2013/03/30 5:06:11 AM ***
Host OS
Operating System: Microsoft Windows NT 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3
PlatformID: Win32NT
Loading config files...
Initial Setup
Setting up the environment...
Made directory tree
Printed scripts
Blades of Avernum located at F:\games\avernum\Blades of Avernum
Detected OS: Windows
ARGB Format: 0xFFAABBCC
Image conversion took 9.3286 milliseconds.
Resource access took 3.2072 milliseconds.
Startup complete with no errors.


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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:49 AM #65 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Yeah, really the fact that Blades of Avernum is installed is kind of irrelevant. The editor will be completely standalone in the end. At the moment it just checks for a folder named "Blades of Avernum". It could even be empty - it just needs a folder. I was thinking that having it know where BoA was installed would be useful, but really that won't be needed so I'll be removing that fairly soon. As it is, it's a good excuse for testing the folder browser. I think I've got the kinks worked out in Windows, but I'm still working for compatibility on Macs.

Speaking of, I've managed to convince (con) a friend of mine to lend me his old MacBook for a while so I might actually be able to test this stuff on my own. Maybe. I'm still trying to figure out how to work it.

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:59 AM #66 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

I wonder if this project is finally dead. I kept predicting its demise. Rachek, signs of life?
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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:04 PM #67 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Ha, no! It's still going. Somewhat slowly due to work/school/life, but definitely kicking. I've been hesitant to just say, "Hey, still alive! No, nothing yet!" ad nauseum. Just rest assured: until I say so, this project should be assumed alive. Anyway, after being unable to get Mono to work myself I've pretty much given up on C# and have switched to Java. That, at the very least, should be readily supported by everyone. I'm having to do quite a bit of tinkering with my existing code to translate it properly, but I'm getting there.

I haven't the slightest ETA at this point as I've never worked with Java extensively before, but the good news is that now that I don't have to constantly check for compatibility I can generally move faster. Technically I tried to make my own editor in an endeavor roughly like this about two years ago but gave up due to being too busy. It was quite functional and able to load all of the data types, the scenario data, and display town/outdoor sections, if not fully capable of editing, and I'm going through its code to use in this project. Once I get the hang of Java, I feel this should take off rather quickly. Honestly I'm more focused on this version than I ever was on the old one just because I went and told people about it. Having other people interested really does help.

While I'm thinking about it, is Java regularly used/available on Macs? I'm just assuming it is, as Java is about as common as Flash in some ways. Though at this point, if it isn't, I really don't know what to do otherwise.

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:30 AM #68 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

View PostRachek, on 13 May 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

While I'm thinking about it, is Java regularly used/available on Macs?
Yes.  If you launch a Java application and do not have Java installed, OS X installs it for you.
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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:49 AM #69 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Just an update: got a lot of work done over the holiday weekend. I have a basic GUI and it's fully capable of reading all of the data from BAS files. Right now I'm working on the code needed to load and display graphics and their individual icons. After that it'll be relatively trivial to start making things like a map editor and such.

I'm not sure when it will be in any way presentable, but I've got some of the more complex things taken care of. It seems to be going pretty smoothly.

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:47 AM #70 Modernized, rebuilt-from-the-ground-up scenario editor coming soon. Anyone interested?

Good to hear! Keep it up!
VCH: I believe we settled this way back when: Kelandon was the most attractive.
SoT: You'd be happy, too, if you were such a clever spider.
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!




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