First impressions from my point of view.

[Nevermore]

Hi to everyone,

 

I only wrote sometimes on the forum, but only today I start to read and write constantly.

I bought yesterday the registration code for Avadon and these are my impressions and beginning ideas.

 

What I Like of the game...

• Cultures and Background Lynaeus lands, like other games by Jeff, convinced me. I love big, huge games with deep Codex (like Skyrim) to read in order to relaxing me between every quests and to knowing better the game's world. I found that well done and the cultures, characters and territories.
  
• Simply character system What i learned from p&p rpgs is that the system must help to support the story and not to complicating the player's life with statistics, numbers and other DM things. In my opinion, the skill tree is a balance choice between customization wishes of hardcore gamers and newbies\casual gamers who begin for the first time a CRPG. It permits to following the PC growth easily and fast.
  
• Interesting and immersive storyline Great and long storyline is what I have always searched in a crpg and Avadon is long and complex, but non resulting boring or tiring.
  
• A lots of quests and mutiple choices Secondary quests and multiple moral\pratical choices are the backbone of every roleplaying game, and ther're a lot here.
  
• Balance Difficulty Not too hard, not too easy: factible and not stressing challenge.
  

What I Don't like of the game:

• The NPCs From what I've been playing actually, maybe it is a personal feeling, many times the non-playing characters aren't charaterized very well (example Heart Miranda, Jennel or Red Beard). From primary npcs I expect deeper feelings, unique personality and psycological level.
  
• Lockpicks I think that the lockpick system isn't very realistic. Lockpicks are common and cheap instruments to open doors and cab be buyed everywhere, so i don't understand why I have to pay 96 gold (an example) for a little trick. Second, how i can open a door depends from the ability of the thief, not the numbers of lockpicks I have to spend, isn't?
  

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Second, how i can open a door depends from the ability of the thief, not the numbers of lockpicks I have to spend, isn't?

The more your lock picking skill, the less lock picks you have to spend, so basically the number you are willing to spend and your skill both contribute, also I thought that both Miranda and Redbeard were pretty well written but as you said, to each his own.

[BMA]

What I Don't like of the game: The PNGs

 

Why don't you try playing some of Spiderweb's older games. You'll see that the introduction of PNGs has only made the games a lot more visually appealing.

[Lilith]

Why don't you try playing some of Spiderweb's older games. You'll see that the introduction of PNGs has only made the games a lot more visually appealing.

 

i think he means NPCs

[Nevermore]

i think he means NPCs

 

Of course, i wanted to say non-playing characters. (Sorry, in Italian it used to say "personaggi non-giocanti" in fact PNG).

 

 

The more your lock picking skill, the less lock picks you have to spend, so basically the number you are willing to spend and your skill both contribute, also I thought that both Miranda and Redbeard were pretty well written but as you said, to each his own.

 

I can accept your reading of the mechanism, but I keep to have

perplexities: one low-level rogue for example, can open with a luck check an hard and difficult door with only on lockpick. This to reflect many circs factors

[Mosquito---Slayer]

I can accept your reading of the mechanism, but I keep to have

perplexities: one low-level rogue for example, can open with a luck check an hard and difficult door with only on lockpick. This to reflect many circs factors

I am not sure what you are saying here, there is no "luck check" thing, your character with the highest lock-picking skill determines how many lock picks you need for the door, if you have that many you can open the door, otherwise not.

[Alorael at Large]

He's saying that in most games, going back to D&D, your lockpicker needs one lockpick and one good roll. In Avadon you have no roll at all, and you might need a lot of lockpicks. I agree that it is not realistic, but I think it makes for better gameplay. You cannot save and reload until you get the door open, and locked doors require the use of a resource rather than just the right build.

 

—Alorael, who would have to say that NPCs/PNGs have never been great in Spiderweb games. Avadon is acually probably one of the best in this regard.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Doh , I thought he was referring to Avadon, anyway just as Alorael said I find the Avadon system to be better, save and reload just doesn't appeal to me at all.

[Nevermore]

He's saying that in most games, going back to D&D, your lockpicker needs one lockpick and one good roll. In Avadon you have no roll at all, and you might need a lot of lockpicks. I agree that it is not realistic, but I think it makes for better gameplay. You cannot save and reload until you get the door open, and locked doors require the use of a resource rather than just the right build.

 

—Alorael, who would have to say that NPCs/PNGs have never been great in Spiderweb games. Avadon is acually probably one of the best in this regard.

 

This is what I wanted to mean through my post, you've pointend the matter.

 

Doh , I thought he was referring to Avadon, anyway just as Alorael said I find the Avadon system to be better, save and reload just doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

Perceptible, but I think that simplicity isn't means to be unrealistic.

 

Another thing I didn't add to my dislikes list (and I'm remembering now), it is the auto-healing rule: as I said this one isn't realistic as well.

 

With "realistic", I am saying the feature of a roleplaying system tabletop, eletronic or not to be as much as possibile near to reality mechanisms.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Another thing I didn't add to my dislikes list (and I'm remembering now), it is the auto-healing rule: as I said this one isn't realistic as well.

Actually if you had to walk all the way to some friendly towns (especially in a shaman less party) just for health recharge, you would probably hate it even more.

A game being realistic is one thing, it being enjoyable is totally another.

[Nevermore]

Actually if you had to walk all the way to some friendly towns (especially in a shaman less party) just for health recharge, you would probably hate it even more.

A game being realistic is one thing, it being enjoyable is totally another.

 

At this point It depends on what do you intend to be "enjoyable" and what do you want from a game. For me, enjoyable is a realistic rpg experience. Of course, Jeff had made a good choice to create a more casual game, to be much more accessible from both newbies or everyone. But sometimes the Hardcore gamer dislikes.

[Kelandon]

It's already not realistic because it has magic. If you like, assume that the Hands have slow-acting, self-healing magic that requires significant concentration such that it only can be used outside of combat.

[Nevermore]

It's already not realistic because it has magic. If you like, assume that the Hands have slow-acting, self-healing magic that requires significant concentration such that it only can be used outside of combat.

 

My opinion refers to the physical and technical roleplay mechanisms which manage most of uncertain situations's endings in a game. But now the discussion is beginning to go out from Avadon's topic.

[Kelandon]

My point is just that you can concoct a story such that most of the game's mechanics are "realistic" within the universe of Avadon, even if they're not realistic here on Earth. I'm not sure what it would be for lockpicks, but appealing to magic usually gets you there on pretty much everything (including the auto-healing that you said that you don't like).

[Alorael at Large]

And "unrealistic" tends to be the label used for "mechanics I don't like that happen to be unrealistic." Realism would be serious wounds requiring months of recuperation or ending a character's career. Realism would be death. Realism would be no reloading! But most people don't want that in story-driven RPGs any more than they want to manage food (down to specific potential nutritional deficiencies!) or having to sleep.

 

—Alorael, who prefers to think of health as an abstract measurement of resilience and ability to avoid serious injuries. If you get worn down in battle you make mistakes and take incapacitating wounds; given a few minutes to rest you can collect yourself and be ready to take on new foes. No, that's not at all how it's described and doesn't really make sense, but it's better than having your fighters survive being set on fire, frozen, poisoned, doused with acid, stabbed several times, and come out as fresh and healthy as ever.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

I disagree with that last bit.

 

Sure, there are times and places where we are all willing to accept lack of realism because it would get in the way of a story. Like what you say about wounds. Those things can be hand-waved with "magic" or just ignored. "It's just a flesh wound."

 

But there are still times where a mechanic just seems so counter-intuitive or vaguely explained that I'm left scratching my head even if I don't hate the mechanic itself. Making the game mechanic seem logical within the game-world helps with that.

 

To take the lockpick example here: I liked it fine in Geneforge, because there it was explained in a way that made sense. They were living tools that would let you operate mechanisms and machinery you shouldn't. Very delicate, complicated bio-engineered life-forms that didn't live long after being forcibly inserted in something that wasn't supposed to accept them. So you needed a few of them to operate something simple and a whole bunch if you wanted to operate something complex. And if your character was very experienced with these things he needed to use fewer of them because he could make them last longer by avoiding stressing them or something. They were very expensive for the same reason: a bit of metal is cheap, but a complex living tool is not. The game-mechanic was identical, but because some explanations were offered and I could deduce others I liked it much better than in Avadon.