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Advice for small parties


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So... If I wanted to play Exile 3 through with a party of 1-3 characters, and no use of the Editor, what do you think the best character builds would be? And what skills should be boosted as the game progresses?

 

Keeping in mind that some things work very differently in E3 than in BoE...

 

(e.g. for starters, throwing weapons actually work in E3.)

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It's been a long time for me, but I think with a half-size party you're going to want to double up on roles for everyone. Fighter-priests are easy, and a party of three of those can reap the benefits of joining the Anama at no cost. But mages are good enough that you may want to forego that and do something like two fighter-priests and a mage, or mage-priest.

 

—Alorael, who really doesn't remember E3 well enough. He'll stop making things up and leave the podium to the experts.

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Hmm. I did a little experimenting with a singleton fighter/mage, and discovered that the mage spell Strength is more powerful in E3 than in BoE. With 4 Intelligence, 4 Strength, 4 Edged Weapons, and Magically Apt, it lets you kick goblins around with impunity. Also, Fireball is much more powerful at low levels in E3, so you can deal with spiders and mauve slimes at a distance. I'll see how far I can get this guy...

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I formulated my Mad Monk Squad while playing Exile for basically two reasons; early weapons and armor did not do enough damage or provide enough protection for level 1-3 fighters, and two, there are places where the dungeon drains spell points from your mages and priests or you get slapped with anti-magic fields, leaving them helpless and useless.

 

Basically I had three fighter/priests (level 3 so they could cast Wound), and three mage/priests. With this cross training, I could actually split my party into two 3 character teams, or three 2 character teams. The Plains before Ornotha Ziggurate were easier to work by splitting into fire teams. I would also train my mage/priests to use swords to a limited degree. Gremlin's Gold in E2 and the Tower of Zkall would drain all spell points from your spell casters. The monsters in these dungeons aren't particularly tough, so they didn't have to be Rambo to deal out sufficient punishment.

 

Fighter/Priest works good, because the heavy armor a fighter needs to wear does not hinder using Priest spells.

Mage/Priest works well so that you have more than one in your party so you can double up or cover for each other. Remember that heavy encumbrance armor will prevent your mage from being able to case mage spells.

My six party breakdown would be:

( Class numbers are I = highest skill, II = medium skill level, III = barely knows it.)

ClassI-Fighter/ClassIII-Priest, I-Fighter/II-Priest, + tool use.

II-Fighter/II-Priest + Archery

I Mage/II-Priest, II-Mage/II-Priest + Lore, II-Mage/I-Priest.

 

I liked the ability for each PC to be able to heal and cure, but when a party of six monks get entangled with a bunch of undead in the Mertix Spiral, or against a Vampire, it is no contest.

 

My gut says that for Exile, the minimum party would be:

Class I Fighter/Class I Priest,

Class II Fighter/Class II Priest + other skills

Class I Mage/ Class I Priest.

 

Massed forces are going to be tricky with only one fire team.

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As Harehunter said there are places where you run out of spell energy so stock up on potions and/or get alchemy to make your own.

 

I found at the start that spells work better until you can get fighters up to higher levels. Plus they work better than range weapons except in Tower of Zkal because you have to spend a round recharging from potions.

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Hmm, yeah, this is what I was missing in BoE. Magic is *way* more powerful in E3 at low levels, to the point that I wonder if the BoE implementation was somehow bugged. I mean, Fireballs from my level 5 character are doing 15-25 damage versus most monsters, compared to 5-10 damage for a similar character and similar monsters in BoE.

 

Re armor, I did kind of forget about that. I haven't encountered any SP draining dungeons or monsters yet, so I'm relying on Strength to just make my character dodge everything. Obviously that will not work later on, but by then I should have at least level 3 priest spells... I figure on switching over mostly to priest spells by the middle of the game. Not the most efficient use of skill points perhaps, but make spells wil get you further earlier... I think.

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Another advantage of starting with level 3 priest, as opposed to building up to it, is that you don't have to spend precious $$$ to buy spells and spell points. Remember, you gain HP as you gain levels, but you have to spend skill points and $$$ to buy spell points. As for the priest spell Wound, it is not overwhelmingly powerful, but it is basically un-blockable.

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If you start with those levels, you *don't* have to buy the first three levels of spells.

 

Also, when you *Start* with priest skill, you start with a number of spell points. Once the game is underway, the only way to gain spell points is to buy them. They're cheap at one skill point for two spell points.

 

Check out the History of the Mad Monk Squad.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember in writing my BoE Scenario Editor that the list of spells you could buy in shops BEGAN with Level 4 spells with only a few that had to be acquired by other means such as identify and ritual of sanctification. Ergo, with no way to sell those L1-L3 spells, there is no need to buy them. I may have mixed my Avernum with my Exile again in this regard.

 

Be that as it may, there is still an advantage to learning mage or priest skill at party design time, rather than adding it during the game; once game play starts, it takes skill points AND money to add a skill level. More to my point, the priest wound spell is more effective IMHO than a stone sword in the hands of a level 1 swordsman with only a leather tunic for protection.

 

In Avernum, if I remember correctly, it does not cost money, but you do have to buy the lower level spells if you did not start out knowing them. On the other hand, low level melee skills are more on an equal footing with the enemies you are likely to meet. There are tradeoffs either way.

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Like I said, I got confused between Exile and Avernum. Different games, different rules.

BTW, I actually prefer the area effect spells of Exile over the multi-target ones of Avernum. It makes it easier to position Wall of Blades for maximum efficiency if you can target any space. I always liked Wall of Blades. It's like laying a minefield.

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I think with big area effect spells like Firestorm, terrain could also shield certain squares from the effect, like if you have a wall directly between you and the centre of the template, which is nice, though I'd like to have seen the squares that are hit take more damage, but that's a bit over complicated.

 

Oh, with bigger monsters, they just took the same damage as everyone else right, no matter how many squares being affected they were in? Again, over-complicating, but it'd be cool it they took damage from every affected square, so being clipped by a fireball isn't as bag as it going off directly on top of you.

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  • 1 month later...

Ugh. Just had my PC die in the Giants encounter on the bridge in The Zakhazi Run... There was one Giant left. One. But he got one lucky hit, and that was it for my poor Nephil.

 

NOOOO.

 

Yeah, anyway... Luck is really important, and should probably be boosted first thing, because it's even more effective than HP and armor at keeping PCs alive.

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Not good enough to take on 20+ Giants with 4 Strength though. smile

 

Actually, this is one of the reasons I think ranged attacks should probably be buffed up a bit in OBoE. As things stand, high-level parties have to have a way to keep their fighters alive when going after archers/spellcasters/breathers. This generally means Luck (and if possible Protection spells). Whereas if archery worked as well for PCs as for NPCs, (ab)using such tactics would be less necessary. And while effective archery may not be realistic, it is a great deal more realistic than Luck-based character shields.

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It is that discrepancy of the effectiveness of NPC archery vs the weakness of PC archery that caused me to adopt the multi-classed fighter-priest, mage-priest combination. At low levels, Wound is more effective than archery, especially when you consider that stone swords and leather armor are more a liability than an asset. At higher levels, when hasted, the effect of 12 Divine Thuds is impressive. I know that this is not considered effective strategy in Avernum, where there are other motivations for single-classed characters.

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  • 1 month later...

So lately I've been messing around with 2 PC parties. One dimwitted musclebound fighter, one pencil-necked geek mage, a la Kalam Mekhar and Quick Ben.

 

This sort of duo sounds silly, but is staggeringly effective. The mage just stands back and throws bless and haste spells, and the fighter goes barreling around kicking rear; as long as the caster can hide somewhere safe, the party is all but invincible.

 

I can see a few shortcomings:

- Uneven EXP distribution. Can be mitigated by giving the mage intrinsic disadvantages, but I don't really like doing that.

- Inability to effectively split up, because the mage can't hold his own.

- Lack of versatility. A single mage will not be that effective with ranged spells (at least at low levels).

 

I kind of wonder what the best strategy is for training such a party as the PCs gain levels though...

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I'm going to stick my neck out there again where I know it's likely to make a good target.

 

For levels 1-20, build hard on their primary skills. Make your fighter a tank, and your mage/priest an Uber Geek.

 

After that I would begin cross-training. Your fighter can wield priest spells effectively but until you've come across some non-encumbering armor, mage skill is just a waste. You should give mage/priest any good non-encumbrance armor and any weapon that gives extra striking power, fire, cold or poison. These would be hand-me-downs from your fighter. Keep priority on their primary skills, until you've maxed them out. Then continue with the cross training.

 

The Mad Monks march again.

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Another observation: by far the most dangerous creatures at lower levels are fire breathers. And by far the most dangerous of those are Ruby Skeletons, each of which can spam 4 heat rays per turn for 20+ damage each, thoroughly roasting my PCs. Resist Magic helps, but not for long.

 

Not really sure what strategy works best for this. Maybe creating force walls and then hauling rear out of breath range? Being able to hide PCs would be nice, but Sanctuary doesn't work for magical attacks.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hate hate hate Ruby Skeletons, they are extremely nasty. Even the spellcasting ones, the spirits, vampire, divas and liches aren't nearly as infuriating.

 

Actually, I find the smaller monsters with one or two nasty tricks tend to be worse than the big scary ones. Nullbugs and web throwing spiders come to mind as well.

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  • 5 months later...

Something I hadn't realized, but that turns out to be useful: some Mage spells break line-of-sight, thus preventing you from being targeted for ranged attacks. These spells are:

 

- Web: Mages start with it, and it covers a wide area. OTOH monsters can tear the webs down (even if it slows them down a little). Still, useful temporary LoS blocking vs. groups.

 

- Fire Barrier: probably the most useful. You can walk through it (for a little damage), and so can monsters, but it blocks spells and arrows. Probably very good for singletons despite the high SP cost; just beware that high level monsters can break the barrier.

 

- Force Barrier: expensive, high level, and you can't walk through it. Otherwise the same as Fire Barrier. Probably not too useful.

 

This stuff is mostly useful at low levels though, at high levels PCs will hopefully have enough Luck not to need it.

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