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Avadon II ?


Superba

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Jeff traditionally starts beta testing in late August to September and it takes 4 months. Avadon started later because it used a newer game engine and took 5 months to test with the different skill tree. Jeff released it even though he didn't like how powerful dexterity was because it would have taken a few more months to test out rebalancing it.

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I would like more non-battle traits and perks that govern speech options in the next one. Like certain perks you can acquire if you have a certain amount given to a particular stat. For example, you may need 15 intelligence in order to unlock the "Very Persuasive" Perk which would allow you to be more persuasive in dialogue for example. So that in some parts of the game a highlighted option will appear that is only usuable if you have the perk. This can be used to balance out the battle system so that it isn't always wisest to build the strongest battle party, but instead you may need to weaken them a bit in order to get better story options and therefore better loot at the end of the day.

 

There could also be traits such as "Cultured" so that people in fancy towns will like you better or, "Good with Authority" so that generals, mages, and roayalty will like you better, you know, such traits as we've seen in Fallout games only Avadon style!

 

Each of these perks may also come with down sides. Such as a cultured character having difficulty communicating with uncultured people and thus finding it harder to talk their way out of bad situations involving such people. On the flip side, a "Man of the People" may have a hard time with cultured folk, but may find it easier to talk his/her way out of having to fight some bandits who feel like that have been cornered. Like in the beginning of Avadon, I couldn't talk my way out of killing those people in the prison. I'm not sure if it's possible, but I would have liked to have been able to just take their stuff and get them to trust me.

 

This was already implemented with the lockpick system to some degree. But I think it was flawed in that you could just save/load if you didn't like the loot behind the lock and use off-characters in order to take the lock pick skill.

 

I think that making the dialogue perks exclusive to the protagonist will force players to commit to a long term strategy in regards to allocating skill points to non-battle talents.

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I personally disliked Avadon. The only Spiderweb Game I disliked.

 

The game was too linear, the side quests were numerous. I should be able to travel to other areas without having to finish a main quest. The charm of spiderweb games is that I can sneak into a Fortress with a level ten character and elude several level fifty epic monsters. In Avadon, I usually meet the level standards of the game because I do most of the quests since there's nothing else to do.

I would've given the quests and storyline a 3/5, because it was too linear. However it still surprised me and kept me going.

 

The portal function also limited the game. There were only a couple of areas, and I could only get four-ish maps in the THREE regions. I hope that's removed and we can have the GeneForge map system. It's okay, yes Jeff you can have portals that require to be unlocked. However could we explore more? It feels like Avadon was done the day before it was released. The lack of maps seems to be made up for the size of the maps. (This is my assumption. The maps seem bigger)

The exploration and traveling is a 2/5, I think I see what Jeff is going for. But I don't really agree with it right now.

 

Also, where's the stealth and diplomacy? Avernum, escape from the pit may not had have it. But the map was so large and vivid, I was buried into the lore and my anticipation to obtain Demonslayer. In Avadon, there's no secret race that was hidden for generations. There's no mission impossible - like missions, (SPOILER ALERT: When you are chased to Beraza Woods by the duke, that didn't count). For a world filled with political elements, and a faction with several powerful infiltrators (eyes) and political power, there wasn't any sweet talking involved. I want to be able to have a leadership skill, so I can discover my possibilities. As frustrating as the existence of the skill is, I still think it should have been included.

The stealth and diplomacy and alternate solutions is a 1/5, I think everything you do is the same. You may be able to side with Tawon or Avadon, but it could be way better.

 

Finally, the combat system. Another aspect of Spiderweb is that it's dungeons and dragons like. You can build a custom character. Whether you want a paladin, a ninja wizard, or a completely stealth and sweet talk adventurer then do as you please. Although the point assignment system is now gone, the new talent trees has replaced them. I say! They are horrendous! At least give us additional skill points! The talent trees were completely limited! It's either, have flashy offensive skills, supportive skills in exchange for your offensive capabilities, or just auto attack and have mad resistances. The Avernum tree was done very well. Not only does it give a strategic sense of build skills, but you could specialize in either pole or melee weapons and choose between tanking or damage dealing. This was amazing. Even the new trait system was fantastic, having traits every few levels was a real good help. I don't die unnecessarily just because I spent my exp levels to get a high boost at the beginning of the game. But then I get killed frequently because I sacrificed my levels.

The combat of Avadon was a 2/5, it's good to have class limited skills. That brings a sort of feeling, but I was limited to what skills I should've gotten. Since pick locking was part of the Sorceress and Shadowwalker who were both high damage dealers. In order to access free loot, I had to sacrifice my damage. Or cheat and rework my skills just to get my items.

 

Avadon was a 2/5 or a 3/5, the game just barely passed. It was okay, and I enjoyed it. However it could be better. I really hope Avadon II is amazing, because Spiderweb is amazing.

 

 

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I do agree that the game is very linear. It's a trend that I've noticed in games lately; the Diablo III beta was very linear in character building compared to D II.

 

As far as the amount of content is concerned, there are a few points. First, Avadon was the first game in the series and thus more time was spent building the engine. Future games will almost certainly be larger and more fleshed out. It certainly would have been nice to explore more, although it wasn't necessary with the way the plot was built. I also liked the larger zones, although a way to enter on any side and maybe fast-travel through cleared areas would be really nice. I spent way too much time walking through zones just to talk to people/dragons.

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Originally Posted By: Avadon
Will the sequel continue Avadon's story with my character or will it be about a new player character?

Almost certainly you will start with a new level 1 character. That is how it's worked in every Spiderweb game. It's several years down the road and the next major conflict is underway and you come in as a fresh new face. It allows for new players to enter a series anywhere along the way and avoids balancing problems trying to make the game work equally well for a level 1 character and a level 30 character.
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Originally Posted By: Avadon
@Kreador

So it will be a totally new character's story in the world of Avadon?

In other words, once I complete my current run of my Shadow Walker in Avadon I, that is the end of his particular tale?


Probably, yes. No other Spiderweb game has let you carry over characters between games, and there's been no suggestion that Avadon will be the first.
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Well actually, no. Just because your a soldier of Avadon doesn't mean your free to roam does it? I mean come on, that removes the charm of Spiderweb Games. Make it so that at least at one point (level 20-ish maybe?), we might get a "special permit" or something to free roam.

Alternately, we could have the Heart, or Eye promotion earlier than the ending of the game. So if we rank up to an Eye, we get to explore, as long as we fulfill tasks for Avadon. If we get to a Heart we get to see more hidden and advanced areas. It's not like the Hierarchy will limit us, there's possibility in that idea.

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The game does let you roam freely by the end (or shortly before it). You can go to any area that's included in the game! You can argue that Jeff should have included more zones, or more zones that aren't plot-critical so you can indulge your exploring bug, but not that your movements are artificially restricted the whole way through.

 

—Alorael, who thinks the powers that be in Avadon would have been well within their rights to allow access only to the one area the plot has you covering. You shouldn't be pestering the Kva when you're on the job in Dhorla.

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I have to agree with Jeff's reasoning. You're not stock-and-file grunts or adventurer's with questionable backgrounds. The story plays you off as a soldier, serving under your commander and doing what you're told. Soldiers who go AWOL generally get the boot.

 

Also, Hearts are the Keepers advisor's, not his elite Hands. They're supposed to be acting as lieutenants for Redbeard. Eyes only go out on missions like you, so for the same reason you can't, they aren't going to village-to-village asking for cellar rats to slaughter.

 

Note that I do hope Jeff makes Avadon 2 bigger, in terms of how many places we get to explore. I don't need 3 trips to the same place. You gave us a new world, I want to go poke it!

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I don't mind the linearity TOO much. It's a different game from Avernum, with different pacing, but I do wish the game was less...cutsceney? In A:EftP, you never lost control of your characters, the enemies always played by the same rules as you, and if you challenged someone to a fight there was always some chance of winning.

 

In comparison, more than once so far Avadon has jerked control away from me to move my characters into position so an NPC could talk to me. This is a little annoying, but what REALLY gets me are enemies who get an inexplicable free pass in getting away. The worst example thus far is Neray, who "nimbly escapes", even though the exit is behind you. Not does she get to ignore the usual combat mechanics of "can't move freely beside other characters", but she gets a 100% evade out of the deal? Come on, if you really want an NPC to get away that badly design the situation so she escapes before the player gets a chance to attack, don't just blatantly cheat. That just disrupts gameplay and annoys the player.

 

I don't really hate the more linear character design. It's not my preferred way of doing things, but it seems to work here. I do agree that it'd be nice if specialization was rewarded a little less, or for the player to be given more skill points so they can afford to branch out. This was sort of a problem in A:EftP too, and really a lot of games in general. It's better to make a million-damage fireball than to be able to make a half-million damage fireball and a half-million damage icestorm.

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What I'll be most interested in seeing is how the events of Avadon play out in the sequel. Sure, some things were "it doesn't matter at all what you do", but others kinda... well completely redefine Avadon as an organization.

 

I've heard that Redbeard will have retained his position of power, which is... perfectly understandable from a design and writing standpoint, but kinda a kick to the teeth in the wake of that awful, awful boss fight. Sure, the only way to reconcile that is to go with "the keeper is missing!" in that regard, if only to avoid doing what Diablo 3 is doing to the anonymous hero of Diablo 1, but even that might get dicey.

 

Still, with A:EftP being both a massive step up in most fundamental areas, and similar enough to translate, Avadon 2 will be leagues ahead of the first game.

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Originally Posted By: Varil
In comparison, more than once so far Avadon has jerked control away from me to move my characters into position so an NPC could talk to me. This is a little annoying, but what REALLY gets me are enemies who get an inexplicable free pass in getting away. The worst example thus far is Neray, who "nimbly escapes", even though the exit is behind you. Not does she get to ignore the usual combat mechanics of "can't move freely beside other characters", but she gets a 100% evade out of the deal? Come on, if you really want an NPC to get away that badly design the situation so she escapes before the player gets a chance to attack, don't just blatantly cheat. That just disrupts gameplay and annoys the player.


You actually can kill Neray in that scene if you focus fire on her fast enough. You miss out on a later scene with her for doing so, of course.
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Quote:
Sure, the only way to reconcile that is to go with "the keeper is missing!" in that regard, if only to avoid doing what Diablo 3 is doing to the anonymous hero of Diablo 1, but even that might get dicey.


Apologies for the digression, but Diablo 3 is doing what now? The heroes in D1 weren't exactly anonymous. In fact, the lore makes it pretty clear that they're all boss fights in D2: Blood Raven, the Summoner, and the Wanderer/Diablo himself. It's kind of a grim series.
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