4th character?

[Kendroxide]

Hi everyone, I got a question about party composition.

 

I get the impression that in these types of games, it is always ideal to have a tank, mage, and cleric(healer); so what should the 4th character be?

 

From previous Avernum games (as well as what was gleaned from the forums) it seems that Dual Wielding (DW) is the way to go, as it always seems to beat both pole and sword+shield. Is it the same in this game? I read some earlier threads claiming that DW does more damage but has lower accuracy then pole, and sword+shield should just be ignored. So my first character would ideally be a DW fighter with nice armor.

 

My next two party member would be a cleric and mage, as they have always been useful in the past. The question here is, should I give my cleric a bow or melee weapon because I don't remember cleric being too good in the damage department from just their spells.

 

Now I am stuck with a 4th character and I can't decide what to do. My first though was to have another DW fighter, but that seems rather dull. My other thought was to make a dedicated archer, but from past experiences it seems that archers always get the short end of the stick. Can't really think of anything else, unless I make a pole figher, but they always seem suboptimal as compared to DWing. Any suggestions? Maybe another mage and make my cleric a melee fighter as well?

[Jerakeen]

If you're playing on Normal, you can afford to play any reasonable combination. Archers are very good in the early game, but they don't keep up. A second tank, or an extra priest would be more effective for the long haul.

[Randomizer]

There are more than enough great swords for two dual wielding characters.

 

You will have lots of fights where two fighters as meat shields work very well.

[Gabriel]

Ask yourself which mode of attack is your favorite and which takes you the least amount of time and effort to use -- your most natural form of attack. You'll have more fun that way.

 

(I'd also note that, usually, the 4th type of character that appears in these games of fantasy is a rogue type character to handle locks.)

[Kinsume]

A meat shield, archer/rouge, mage caster and healer is the typical rpg party line-up. However in this case a dual wielder makes for a decent off-tank while also out dpsing a pure archer so there really isn't much reason not to make it that.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Sword and board isn't as good as dual wielding, but it's actually better than pole weapons. Pole weapons just suck in AEftP. Their damage isn't that much better than swords, and while they have a chance to hit a second target nearby, it's too low to make a difference. Especially since some swords have a (granted, slightly lower) cleave chance as well. At least sword and shield gives you a decent defense boost. Plus, in the late game, weapons and shields start giving some nice passive bonuses, and two weapons/weapon & shield means twice as many of these.

 

Archers aren't as bad in this game as they were in Avernum 5-6. They're still a lot less good than dual wielders, but they compare favorably to pole fighters. They do less damage, but being able to attack at range is a significant advantage, and they have a few other perks.

[Danny the Fool]

Mages and priests become very powerful in the late game so if you want to do more damage eventually, that's a good choice.

 

Melee fighters are very good for crowd control (ironically) and they also do decent damage against single targets. You don't really need to differentiate between meatshields and dual wielding fighters, especially not on normal. IMHO, shields don't give enough of a boost to defense to outweigh the lost damage from not dual wielding. Just use shields until you can dual wield swords efficiently on all melee characters.

 

Archers are okay but how much they're worth to you depends on your playing style, they don't offer as much in the way of playing tactically as melee fighters and magic users do.

 

Note that none of this means you can't play anything you want. This game is playable on the highest difficulty with only one character. It's not that it's so easy that you can just run into any encounter and beat it with a few clicks but you can definitely make a lot of things work if you try.

Also, give your mages broadswords because cleave seems to apply to fireballs

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Danny the Fool

Also, give your mages broadswords because cleave seems to apply to fireballs

Bolt of Fire has an innate cleave chance at level 3; it's possible the cleave chance from a broadsword stacks with that, but I'm not sure. I know that accuracy bonuses on weapons do improve spell accuracy.

[Randomizer]

Bolt of Fire has a cleave chance at 2nd level. No need for a sword.

 

Shields get up to 21% armor and a few have decent damage multipliers. If you are facing a monster that you can't hit easily like sliths early in the game then using a shield makes sense.

 

Edit - What Lilith said about weapon accuracy bonuses also means that mages can wear bulky armor while still being able to use spells.

[Danny the Fool]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Bolt of Fire has a cleave chance at 2nd level. No need for a sword.

That would explain it, of course

Quote:

If you are facing a monster that you can't hit easily like sliths early in the game then using a shield makes sense.

Yeah, that's why I suggested to use shields universally until you can dual wield efficiently, instead of making dedicated characters for each style.

[Kendroxide]

Hey, I know this is kind of a long shot, but can you effectively make a hybrid mage/fighter or cleric/fighter? Or would this be spreading your points too thin. I remember in Baldur's Gate that my fighter/mage was a real badass, can you do the same here?

[Randomizer]

The game has no level cap so theoretically there will be enough levels to do whatever you want. However above level 30 you only get to add to abilities every 5 levels and don't get more traits so it gets harder.

 

A party of 4 finishes the game normally in the mid 30s. A single character can finish the game in the mid 50s.

 

Hybrid characters tend to be weaker because their damage is lower since spells need intelligence and fighter needs strength for melee or dexterity for archer.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Hybrid characters are pretty much necessary in singleton games, but outside of that they tend to underperform compared to more focused characters. The only hybrids that don't face the dreaded Multiple Stat Dependency are priest/mages. Even these spread their skill points pretty thin (don't expect them to contribute to the party's tool use/first aid/lore skills and still get high level spells), and don't gain all that much in actual power, but they are extremely versatile. They're especially useful in parties with fewer than four characters.

[Slawbug]

Actually, there is a slight opportunity for good hybrids due to the fact that healing spells are not Int-dependent. They are Priest Spells-dependent, and your max SP is Int-dependent. But this is at least better than the hybrid opportunities for any of the offensive paths.