A:EftP - Is it supposed to be this difficult?

[rabbit]

I feel like I'm missing something really basic. Or at least, I hope I am. I am going to complain with bullets, and hope something coherent is made in the process.

 

- I am playing on Normal difficulty.

 

- My party is level 10.

 

- There was one encounter in the Aranea cave that took me about 10 tries to complete.

 

- There is another encounter in the Aranea cave I cannot complete.

 

- I am presently being slaughtered only a few steps into the Slith fort south of Dranlon.

 

- My "warrior" deals 17 damage to a Slith warrior.

 

- My archer with a dexterity of 17 misses a third of her shots.

 

- "Haste" doesn't haste. (It should be called "Maybe Haste".)

 

- Most of the time when I am crushed it's because of mind control effects. 2-4 of my characters get dazed and it's all over. Buying and using the first of the mind-ward spells feels like it does nothing.

 

- If it's not being dazed or ensnared then I am feared, and run off into other groups of enemies and then join in the fun of crushing me.

 

- Why can I use the 2-4 keys to heal but not the 1 key? (P -> A -> 2 works, but not P -> A -> 1)

 

- I would love to know that the enemy I am trying to hit is/not going to cause my character to run AROUND some obstacle BEFORE it happens.

 

- I would love to be shown how close a character needs to be to get a particular shot off.

 

- I've explored the area around Fort Avernum and Formello and at this point any where I go in those areas crushes me.

 

What am I missing?

 

I realize I can (and probably will) switch to Casual mode, but I feel like something is broken. If this is normal, wtf are the other levels like?

[Slawbug]

The Aranea cave is one of the hardest areas in that section, if I remember correctly. Sliths are also hard for that point in the game.

 

Your warrior should be doing more than 17 damage, though.

 

Here are some basic pointers for making strong characters. A lot of this ISN'T obvious, so if you've done things differently, don't feel slighted.

 

- Invest all, or almost all, or your basic stat points into one stat: Strength for warriors, Dexterity for archers, Intelligence for spellcasters. A little Endurance is OK for everyone, too.

 

- Skills are not as critical, but some of the best early skills are the basic weapons skills, Mage Spells, Priest Spells, Blademaster, Sharpshooter, Hardiness, and Parry. Getting the other medium and high level skills is not necessary early on, and some of them just suck.

 

- "Maybe Haste" made me laugh. And it's true. Nonetheless, a 1 in 3 chance of a free attack is still really, really strong. You should be casting all your buffs -- Haste, War Blessing, and Protection -- right BEFORE the beginning of any fight that gives you trouble.

 

Originally Posted By: rabbit

- I would love to know that the enemy I am trying to hit is/not going to cause my character to run AROUND some obstacle BEFORE it happens.

 

- I would love to be shown how close a character needs to be to get a particular shot off.

These are major peeves of mine, and I agree 100% -- this is super frustrating.

 

I don't remember there being that many mental effects early on, but I may have done the areas in a different order from you.

 

You might try going elsewhere. The Mertis area (south of Silvar) is also good for low levels. If you want, you can also go to the Tower of Magi and then west to the many towns in the Great Cave. I'd recommend avoiding enemies and dungeons in those areas for now, but the roads are fairly safe and you can get some goodies in the other towns.

[Randomizer]

The Aranea area is hard for that level and you will suffer lots of mental effects there. Although Ward of Thoughts should help a bit more with avoiding daze.

 

Penetrating damage is all that counts and doing only 17 to a Slith warrior is a bit low. Investing in strength helps and I remember consistently missing them with my fighters.

 

Once you've done the main quest for Formello to retrieve the Mayor's necklace, it is a good time to head south and get better spells at the Tower of Magi. Avoid the ogres for and head west to the Great Cave where you can pick up a few levels mostly doing minor collection quests and deliveries.

 

This game uses death and quests to go places as hints on where you should go next.

[Death Knight]

Im currently in a game and i am using 3 melee fighters and 1 priest. Unless you have less than 2 physical damage characters, War blessing might be sometimes more useful than haste. 10% bonus to hit/damage is great due to being able to hit being better than not hitting at all.

[Slawbug]

Death Knight is mistaken. War Blessing affects all damage types, so it benefits spellcasters as much as fighters.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

And it's not like you really have to choose. You can have both war blessing and haste. We have the technology. We can make you stronger, faster, more resistant to mental attacks.

[Danny the Fool]

There are two encounters in the Aranea cave where it's hard to pull away single enemies. But having a full party doesn't mean you have to rush them all in and it doesn't mean you can't try to kill one Aranea and then make an escape. Use summons to help your escape, they will slow down enemies that try to pass them and will also make some of them attack your summoned creature instead of running after you. Then heal up outside and come back to a fight that is hopefully slightly easier.

 

The hardest encounter in the cave is the one near the back end which you need to get past in order to complete the main task in the cave. If you find that you can't beat it, it's possible to run past it in combat mode if you can battle frenzy your party.

[rabbit]

Awesome replies all -- thank you.

 

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

This game uses death and quests to go places as hints on where you should go next.

 

I think that is what I was looking for. Some indication that I shouldn't freak out about not being able to win every encounter upon first encountering it.

 

@Danny the Fool -- interesting ideas. I hadn't thought of ever running away inside a dungeon, and using summons sounds pretty smart.

 

Oh, I also found that my problem with not being able to select my first-slot character was my error -- I had overwritten the keyboard shortcut for it.

 

I've started a new party -- two berserkers, one priest, one sorcerer. Still on Normal setting though. I'll apply the advice I gained in this thread. Thanks again all.

[Parakeet]

In RE - I would love to know that the enemy I am trying to hit is/not going to cause my character to run AROUND some obstacle BEFORE it happens

 

I find that using the arrow keys is the only way to avoid that cussable quirk. It's not as step count effective as it's lacking a diagonal, but it will avoid the Let's Go Around the Corner Surprise.

 

Parakeet

[rabbit]

Ah, Parakeet -- if your keyboard has a numerical keypad (laid out similar to a calculator) you can achieve diagonal movement with a single keystroke.

 

In fact, I'd like to take this moment to say that the keyboard support for this game is really good. But it could be better. I'd love to be able to forgo the mouse entirely, but it's not quite there yet.

[Kendroxide]

While we are on the topic of difficulty, what exactly changes as you increase the difficulty. I just got the game (windows version) and haven't had a chance to start it up yet. Is the difficulty comparable with Avadon, because I found hard too easy and torment too hard (without cheesing dexterity of course!) and would like to start at a difficulty that is hard enough to make you think, but not so hard that you have to cheese your way through the game.

[Randomizer]

Increased difficulty means increased monster health and ability to hit you but not as great as in the older Avernum and Geneforge games and more like Avadon. Also boss monsters get more abilities to use against you.

 

Monsters also have more attacks per round like in Avadon.

 

It pretty much is the same difficulty as Avadon with dexterity being slightly less useful against boss monsters.

[Lilith]

The game is somewhat more difficult overall, though. If you found Avadon's Torment difficulty too hard, then EftP's hard difficulty will probably be about right for you.

[Gorelab]

On this topic where's a good place to go around level 11 or 12ish? The end of the ogre cave near the Tower of the Magi is destroying me and the spiral pit final fight was brutal for me. Maybe Slith forts? Or going on to find some priest spells like element shield and mass heal?

[Lilith]

Yeah, you can probably take on some Sliths at your current level. It'll be a bit of a slog, but it's doable, and they have pretty good treasure. You can try the aranea caves as well, but they might still be a bit much for you.

[Randomizer]

If you are still having trouble than just head over to the Great Cave and do delivery quests and visit places for location XP, You'll gain a level without combat.

[AaronC]

Is Droknarr (in Silvar sewers) supposed to be done at a low level? It seems absurdly difficult for the party that would logically arrive at Silvar at around level 2. On Torment, just wondering if he is supposed to be one of those guys you skip until later?

[Jerakeen]

On Normal he's the right difficulty for your level. On Torment, he's a good way to find out if you're building your party correctly - in other words, tough but beatable.

 

Go back upstairs to recuperate after each encounter. When you get to the boss, use Daze for crowd control while your fighters box him into a corner. Make sure your priest keeps everyone shielded and healed. You should have a group healing scroll and a fiery wand by now; go ahead and use them if needed.

[Lilith]

It's not impossible to do it at a very low level. He has some very lethal attacks but not very much HP, so if you get a bit lucky in the first couple of rounds you can wear him down before everyone gets killed. Might be best to come back later if you're getting frustrated, though.

[Kinsume]

I'm on him right now in Torment, in Normal and Hard my party breezed through him. I've only made one attempt at it thus far and it ended poorly, originally things started out well with me getting him boxed in but a round came up where both my fighters missed and couldn't kill his summon. With him being massively buffed at this point, he was able to cast 2 fireball things on my tank and basically instant kill him.

 

So as long as you do it right you should be ok.

 

 

Steps you can follow.

 

1. Stop right in front of the door before the convo starts and buff.

 

2. Enter and talk.

 

3. Immediately send your fighters to next to him, but split up if possible.

 

4. He will run back into a corner on his next turn and summon a creature.

 

5. The goal is to keep this creature dead every round, otherwise he will buff and nuke the crap out of you. When his summon dies he makes another one the next round.

 

6. Meanwhile have your mage and healer both cast their summons in the back row, as well as daze to stop the horde of slimes and such coming from behind.

 

7. Keep on chipping away at him, keep your members topped off, win.

 

Edit :

 

Oh and if he posions you on Hard/Torment you're better off just reloading because your melee characters are dead.

[Jerakeen]

Your priest doesn't have a summon yet, unless you've been to Ft. Dranlon. And there's a danger of any summon getting in the way of your warriors, depending on which corner Droknarr ends up in.

 

I mostly focused on him and ignored his pet as much as possible. Maybe I just got lucky that he didn't haste himself.

[AaronC]

I just gave up after trying a bit more. The poison cloud just wrecks me. I'll wait to get some more spells.

 

Seems like you get critically hit a lot in this one as well

[Marak]

Personally, I just chased him into the room with the wheel, trapped him in the corner, and chipped away at him while keeping all the Worms he was summoning chain-Dazed with my Mage.

 

Having a Pet out to take some hits isn't a terrible idea, either.

 

This was on Hard, but should apply to most difficulties, I would think.

[Randomizer]

On hard/torment there is a greater chance that you will see the poison area effect.

 

On harder difficulties I usually like to have 2 levels higher for the party than normal for boss fights.

[Kinsume]

My priest has level 2 Mage Skill for that summon as well as Daze. Since I play on torment the extra crowd control and meatshield is essential to survival. Often times it still isn't enough.

 

Regardless I tried her at level 2 on torment and got my ass readily handed to me. After 3-4 attempts I went out and leveled to 3. Came back, tossed on a speed potion, shielding potion, and that scroll that reduces acid/physical damage, casted protect with my Healer, and summoned both of their summons in the back to tank the additional monsters that were going to come. It took maybe 10 rounds and I managed to kill her, in reality it all comes down to if it uses posion cloud on you or double casts that fire attack.

 

Edit :

 

I'm currently level 4 and trying to save the prisoners from the Neph place and taking the secret passage. The Vorpal and Fierce rat over there are the bane of my existence right now. Same reason I couldn't finish the Bat quest as well. These things resist daze pretty much every time I cast it, have a ton of hp and pretty much 1 shot my melee characters.

[Jerakeen]

There are several easier things you can do before that to level up a bit more. Collection quest, courier sort of things. And you only need to kill 8 bats for that quest; you can go back later to finish the cave. You might want to grab a boat in Cotra and head up the coast to Ft. Dranlon for some cheap spell levels too.

[Kinsume]

Yeah I walked up there and dumped all of my gold (2.4k at the time) into upgrading spells and such. My Mage and Priest both have improved heal and improved daze. My Mage also got haste and my healer got improved protection, war blessing and improved war blessing.

 

I'm currently inside the bat cave once more, figured I'd give it another shot. Got up to the experimented rat thing and it hits as hard as the fierce one, plus it poisons each time. So pretty much if anyone but my main tank is targeted they die. I'm going to hold off on him and get another level or two before I go back. I think I'll head up to the bandit fort and try to kill that mage now.

[Jerakeen]

Oh yeah, you should definitely do the Ft. Duvno quests before Cotra's. The bandit mage is quite doable at your level. I had more trouble with the bandit in the next room south - had to swap my fighters' second swords for shields to give them a decent chance to hit him.

[Kinsume]

Yeah he was a pain, i just kept him dazed and nuked him down. Improved war blessing helps quite a bit for him in terms of my fighter's hit rate.

 

Currently sitting at level 6 and not sure what I want to do, I took a boat over to the souther silth tower thing where I have 2 quests but haven't entered yet. For the demo area the other things I have left to do is kill that big neph encampment, kill that random silth group that is sitting near the top Fort, and clear that super neph fort that I rescued the prisoners from. Issue being on Torment, level 6 is too low for those.

 

I found a random mage with some goblin warrior south of the starter town via boat and tangled with her. First round she icy rain'd my group and instantly killed 3 of my members and dropped the tank to about 15hp. I revive scrolled and managed to get all of the warriors killed, but the mage just kept dazing and icy storming my party, so that was a bust.

 

My only issue thus far with things is the fact that it is completely open world, but you aren't given even a remote idea of what level monsters are in various places. For example I took my boat down to this Honeycomb place and found a random encounter of slimes. There were like 20 of them and one just walked up to my group, aoe'd and killed us all lol.

[Jerakeen]

You want to take the mayor's advice and head north to Formello now. But be careful - there are lots of things that can kill you up there too.

[Randomizer]

Going up to Formello and do some delivery quests to Motrax's Lair and Fort Draco scores some easy XP and while you are there it isn't far to Gary's spa location.

 

At level 7 you can complete pretty much everything in the Eastern Gallery and start fighting the nephils in the Fortress to do the Mayor's necklace quest.

[Kinsume]

Haha ironically enough I found out what to do via trial and error. Went south and died, went west and died, went north and found stuff I could kill. xD

 

But yeah I did the well quest, haven't done the deliveries just yet. Currently working on clearing out the Neph Fortress and I'm halfway to level 8. My only issue is so far I've run into 3 rooms that are instant death for me.

 

Room 1 where the human mage is, they pretty much kill both my fighters before I even get to move.

 

Room 2 where the chieftain is, I only tried that room once and he poisoned me so didn't bother going back yet.

 

Room 3 the one you open with the bronze key, got poisoned there and then they took out both my fighters before I could move.

 

Oh and the basement wasn't too pretty the first time I went down there either.

 

So now I'm currently just running around the 2nd and first floor picking off what enemies I can trying to get to level 8. Also how much Tool Use do I need to disarm those traps in Formello?

 

Edit :

 

Room 4... The Blue boss mage room insta kills me as well lol.

 

Room 5... the entrance = pain

 

Room 6... the second in command chief guy near the entrance = pain

 

Compared to the previous dungeons I quite like this one, it has several "boss" type monsters in it. Granted I've died atleast 30 times in here already, but still quite entertaining.

[Randomizer]

For Formello you need tool use 9 for the treasury rooms. However the northeast one you might want to wait until a much higher level.

 

The entrance to the Nephilim Fortress isn't the right way to enter until you cleared part of the upper level and dealt with a certain item.

 

The blue ogre magi is tough but doable if you leave a healer outside and go into melee.

 

When all else fails stand outside the doorway and let monsters come to you and have them face four of your characters to one stuck in a door. Also lob icy spray area effects over the poor idiot monster in the door and kill the stuff inside from a safe distance.

[Kinsume]

Yeah I went in the backdoor first then out the front after clearing most of the stuff.

 

As for the door trick, that may work for the ghouls room perhaps. Not entirely sure about the chief and human mage though as they both use aoes.

[Randomizer]

The female mage on the upper level southeast corner will eventually come to the doorway. Then you can get her without having to fight the rest.

 

The boss priest in the upper level southwest corner is harder and eventually you need to enter the room.

 

The nephil chief in the upper level northwest is hard to lure out of the room without facing his helpers and he summons pets.

[Kinsume]

The pets don't bother me, its the aoe posion that gets me and his aoe cleave attack.

 

Edit :

 

Well I managed to take the human mage down, just buffed up and charged in. Had an improved shade on my priest this time on top of my mage's level 3 creature so they soaked up a few hits while I cleared the room. Then taking her down was easier now that her fireball didn't 1 shot my mage and priest. (almost, but not quite )

 

I tried the door trick with the ghouls, it was working for a bit up until the shaman casted a posion on all 4 of my guys killing 3 of them.

 

As for the chieftan, tried a similar strategy as I did with the mage but no luck. I got his three guards down but he finally just used his aoe posion and destroyed our group.

[Lilith]

Yeah, that poison attack is devastating early on. It becomes increasingly irrelevant later, but for now it's one of the most dangerous things that can happen to you. For now there isn't much you can do about it besides hoping that the enemy doesn't use it or coming back once you've gained a couple of levels.

[Kinsume]

My question is, where do I level in the mean-time? Sliths still hit too hard so I can't do those quests. I went up to that Fort to turn in a quest but the monsters up there are the Nephar type ones and those hit too hard as well.

 

Granted it isn't their damage so much as their speed for the random encounters. They go first in pretty much every fight so 1-2 of my guys are killed right off the bat before I can cast a spell or anything.

 

But yeah as it stands when fighting anything with that poison skill I simply reload as soon as I see it cast. Why can't mine be that strong? xD

[Lilith]

Hmm. Well, you can presumably handle wandering monsters around the starting area and they'll still give you some experience. But if you don't want to spend some time levelling up, one thing you can do when facing a group of enemies indoors is have three of your characters charge in and the fourth hang back a bit, aiming to kill as many enemies as you can. When your three characters are about to get wiped out, have your fourth start running and get back to the nearest town. When you come back, the enemies you managed to kill will still be dead, so the fight will be easier. It's a bit of a slow strategy, but it works.

[Kinsume]

That would kind of defeat the purpose of playing on Torment I think. I'll find somewhere to get another level or two and give them another go.

 

Edit :

 

Well I took down the chieftan and the human mage. Still not sure if I'm going to try and tackle that Blue Mage yet. Trying to wrap my head around how I'm going to deal with that room full of ghouls.

[Slawbug]

If you're on Torment, you need to take the time to do lots of exploring. You can easily get above level 6 before dealing with those sets of enemies.

[Kinsume]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

If you're on Torment, you need to take the time to do lots of exploring. You can easily get above level 6 before dealing with those sets of enemies.

Tank (Sword+Shield)
Level : 9
Str : 12(+2)
Dex : 4 (+1)
Int : 4
End : 7 (+1)

Melee Weapons 10
Hardiness 5
Parry 3
Tool use 3

Fighter (Dual wield)
Level : 8 (I built her pretty glass cannony for a frontliner, but regret nothing lol)
Str : 12 (+1)
Dex : 4
Int : 4
End : 5 (+1)

Melee Weapons 9
Blademaster 8
Tool use 2

Mage (Bow)
Level : 9
Str : 4
Dex : 4
Int : 14 (+2)
End : 5

Mage Spells 11
Priest Spells 1
Tool use 2
Arcane Lore 7

Priest (Bow)
Level : 9
Str : 4 (+1)
Dex : 4
Int : 14 (+2)
End : 5

Mage Spells 2
Priest Spells 11
Tool use 2
Arcane Lore 6

(Yes I realized a bit too late I over invested in Arcane Lore. It happens -.-)

[Slawbug]

I see I was not reading the most recent posts in the thread

[Kinsume]

I edited my post with my current party.

[Randomizer]

The easiest way, even though it's hard to get all 4 characters out of the room, is still to run through a doorway and try to get only one ghoul at a time attacking you.

[Kinsume]

I'm about to have another go at it, the ghoul's damage isn't really the problem. My buffed tank can take a few blows from the. The issue are the 2 Naphar archers backing them up along with that mage. If I try to sit in the doorway with my tank he just gets pounded on, or the mage poisons everything and it all dies.

 

Currently my plan is going to be to try to toss a daze in there and hope I can get the archers/mage out of the fight for a bit, then work down the ghouls. Since both my mage and priest have improved daze and fairly high Int for their level, it should work after a couple tries.

[AaronC]

Where exactly should I be at 10 or so? I can't take on Sliths, I think I've done everything I could in the Eastern Gallery. Is everything down south in Mertis/Magi stronger than everything where I started?

 

I have a bunch of quests still, but all seem to be beyond my reach.

 

Except the shovel/pick one...that third shovel eludes me still.

[Triumph]

You might want to head north toward Formello.

[Randomizer]

The Eastern Gallery Demo area is level 7 to 8

Formello area is level 10 to 11

Mertis/Tower Magi minor quests

Mertis Spiral except the center

Start clearing the Sliths off the island southwest of Cotra except the boss

Great Cave except Gremlin's Gold

 

If you are having trouble with combat then just explore and do delivery quests for a few levels. You don't need to kill the boss monster of an area right away.

 

Mertis and Formello have extra picks and shovels.

[Kreador]

Originally Posted By: AaronC

Except the shovel/pick one...that third shovel eludes me still.

Did you pick up the one down the secret passages on the left of the entrance to the Nephar fort? Or run down to the Tower of Magi and grab one there, or lots of other places. I think Fort Duvno has one. You might check the item list.