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Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]


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ixfd64 ixfd64

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:57 PM #1 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

In Exile 3 and its Avernum counterpart, Erika perishes when Rentar-Ihrno activates the curse that Garzahd put on her. Erika doesn't appear in any later canon, so it would be safe to assume that she's gone for good.

However, death doesn't seem permanent in the Avernum universe as there are resurrection spells and whatnot. In that case, is there any official reason why no archmages have tried to resurrect Erika (or any other key character for that matter)? Or is she deader than dead?
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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:59 PM #2 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

The curse scorched Erika to a pile of ashes which were blown
up with Rentar's fortress. There is no way to revive someone whose remains were buried in a faraway unaccessible place. Besides, the return life spells seem to be game mechanics rather than something real exist in the game universe.

ogot ogot

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:27 AM #3 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

I like to think that she's finally enjoying some peace and quiet after all the crises she's helped pull the Exiles/Avernites through, and so her soul isn't answering any attempt to call her back.

Or maybe she became a lich.

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:56 PM #4 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Except for the party itself, all deaths do seem final in Avernum. No one else is ever revived. No one else talks about resurrection, as far as I can remember. As of the second trilogy, even your party only falls unconscious.

—Alorael, who thinks revival of the dead is just a remnant of Avernum's history as Exile and Exile's descent from Ultima and D&D.

Qualicide Qualicide

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:40 PM #5 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

reminds me of that BG2 death quote from Jan "don't forget to raise me.."

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Heart of Avadon

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 11:23 AM #6 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

same thing as in Solberg's case, she's dusted so nothing to resurrect.

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Hand of Avadon

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:58 PM #7 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

The return life spell can revive a dusted character, though, if it's relatively high level (3, I think?). I'd call this much more a matter of gameplay and story segregation.
When you think about it, 'Fnord Cola' is a really disappointing name for a soda. All the cans would just read 'Cola.'

Mage Poppy Mage Poppy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:29 PM #8 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

I have always wondered that myself. I've also wondered why we couldn't heal the plague victims on Shayder hospital. Why didn't the priests just cast heal spells?

Ishad Nha Ishad Nha

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:48 PM #9 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Especially as they are really into the Priest spells.

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:36 PM #10 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

It's kind of a hand-wave, but we should note that there are differing levels of difficulty involved in removing various ailments. For instance, a dose of common poison or disease is easy enough for a PC priest to cure, but you have to go to a specialist to remove dread curse.
When you think about it, 'Fnord Cola' is a really disappointing name for a soda. All the cans would just read 'Cola.'

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:12 PM #11 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

I seem to recall the only reference to raising the dead in cannon I can think of is in A1 when you slay Hawthorne. I believe something gets said about how his dust blows out the window so they can't resurrect him. Could be fuzzy memory on my part, though, as it's been over a decade now.

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Milla Milla

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:03 AM #12 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

In A4 I think a healer talks about how they use non-magical healing in tangent with magic to conserve energy.
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Heart of Avadon

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:27 AM #13 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Originally Posted By: Illegal Furniture
The return life spell can revive a dusted character, though, if it's relatively high level .

sure if those dusts are all there but in Erika's and Solberg's case that isn't case.

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:41 AM #14 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

You know, we can get into a lengthy discussion over how adventurers preserve the dust of their fallen comrades intact, and the mechanical difficulties of rendering something as nuanced as the way in which a fireball scatters the ashes of the recently deceased, and how magic that can restore human life to something that no longer bears even the vaguest resemblance to a human corpse (let alone a living body) can't just work on one mote of dust or a few and instead takes a good hefty dice bag's worth of the stuff (herein defined as the amount preserved from a standard dusted adventurer, which is also more than was left of Erika, Solberg, Hawthorne, et al)...Or we can just recite the MST3k mantra, as Jeff* himself seems to be inclined to in this case, and acknowledge that resurrection in the older Exile/Avernum games doesn't make sense, and maybe doesn't need to.

*He has not addressed this particular question as far as I know, but his commentary on similar questions tends to be "it's magic. Why do you expect it to make sense?"
When you think about it, 'Fnord Cola' is a really disappointing name for a soda. All the cans would just read 'Cola.'

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:36 AM #15 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Bakersfield Dozen said:


Except for the party itself, all deaths do seem final in Avernum. No one else is ever revived. No one else talks about resurrection, as far as I can remember. As of the second trilogy, even your party only falls unconscious.

—Alorael, who thinks revival of the dead is just a remnant of Avernum's history as Exile and Exile's descent from Ultima and D&D.


Indeed, it seems that A4 retconned resurrection out of existence, so all sequels after Erika's death preclude it.

In-universe, if the curse on Erika was so powerful even she couldn't lift it, isn't it plausible it could have precluded resurrection as well?

Milla Milla

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:27 PM #16 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

What if like with DnD that with resurrection the target actually has to want to return?

That could explain Solberg. He was so so tired.
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Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:45 PM #17 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

This is the man who kept himself alive long after he should have died for Avernum. I think if he were called back he'd come, exhaustion and all.

—Alorael, who would rather take the explanation that Solberg's half-lich self-maintenance fell apart when he died. He couldn't be resurrected because his existence was already too delicate of an arcane balance.

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:02 AM #18 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Solberg apparently died of old age, so by DnD rules he's permanently dead anyway.

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:20 PM #19 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Yes, but this is Avernum, Not DnD
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:23 PM #20 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Originally Posted By: Trenton the Crazed Twilight Teen
Yes, but this is Avernum, Not DnD

But my understanding is that Exile had a lot of things "borrowed" from D&D, which have been left in throughout the remakes. Thus, things like resurrection might not make sense in the games anymore (and especially in A4-6 and A:EftP), but they're still present within them.

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:26 PM #21 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Yes but not EVERYTHING from DnD is in Avernum.
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(all demos for all games), Exile III: Ruined World, Avernum IV, Geneforge 4+5+3
-~-Games that have a current play through-~-
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-~-Owned Games yet to have a started playthrough-~-
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:06 PM #22 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Originally Posted By: Trenton the Crazed Twilight Teen
Yes but not EVERYTHING from DnD is in Avernum.

No, nobody is saying that. It just so happens, however, that this particular thing does seem to be a holdover from D&D.

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:12 PM #23 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Not really. Resurrection seems to be entirely ignored by the plot. Putting restrictions on when or how it works can fix plot holes, and D&D-congruent restrictions work well enough, but it's all just patching. The easy but entirely outside narrative explanation is that resurrection is there as a game mechanic but not as a fact of the fictional world.

—Alorael, who finds it equally plausible to think that only a very small handful of people can be revived. Think of it as a genetic quirk. You're just lucky enough to have that vital ability!

Milla Milla

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:03 PM #24 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

And so just happens that all player characters have this skill?
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:10 PM #25 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Well, they're arguably amongst the most powerful forces in Avernum, at least on the human side of things (since the Vahnatai and the dragons are probably stronger, and also inaccessible, we won't count them). Who is stronger? The Five, and maybe a select few like Aimee, or Mahdavi?

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:52 PM #26 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Originally Posted By: Milla
And so just happens that all player characters have this skill?
Yes. It's a trait with a number of other advantages without which you really just can't make it as an adventurer. There are others, of course, but you don't play as them; their lives are nasty, brutish, and short without save/reloads.

—Alorael, who doesn't think the world is ready for realistic depiction of life as people who charge overwhelming numbers of enemies with swords.

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:57 PM #27 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

I remember a friend describing a D&D game where he played a group of 4 peasants.  Most of the time it was normal hack and slash. The fun came when the evil party he ran with would send his peasants into town to buy supplies and being peasants the first thing they would always do was hit a bar and spend all the money drinking.  Then they would return to camp without the supplies, get killed by the other players, and he would roll up new peasants.

He said he never got them past 2nd level.  smile

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Milla Milla

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:34 AM #28 Y u no ressurect Erika? [game lore, possible spoilers]

Originally Posted By: Click friend and enter
Originally Posted By: Milla
And so just happens that all player characters have this skill?
Yes. It's a trait with a number of other advantages without which you really just can't make it as an adventurer. There are others, of course, but you don't play as them; their lives are nasty, brutish, and short without save/reloads.

—Alorael, who doesn't think the world is ready for realistic depiction of life as people who charge overwhelming numbers of enemies with swords.

That means true the true heroes are from Nethack and ADOM who finish the game.
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