Good and Evil Powergaming (spoiler)

[Randomizer]

Edit to include a missing item -

 

For those of you that like to powergame. The party's reputation as good and evil is designed so you can only get the bonus reward for one and for the Roman game when you get to the Spire of Ages testing.

 

You start at base 100 and good is 130 and over with evil being 70 and under.

 

The things that make a difference are:

 

1 - South of Vanarium helping Adams get the wolf (+5) with warrior's ring reward or robbing him (-8) and get superior longsword and some coins

 

2 - Near Jagged Aerie the trapped gryphon - help (+10) ,attack (-10) makes the Aerie hostile, but you can get past the sentinel gryphon with food to get to the molting gryphon so you can postpone decision

 

3 - Near Faeire Bazaar helping Conn-give money (+5), no (-5)

 

4- If Roman then attacking Throd the hungry Fomorian(-5), food(+5) and get a shield.

 

5 - North of the Hollow Hills releasing (+10) or robbing the bound Selkie (-10) of his strength bracelet +2 , leave (-3)

 

6 - North of the Spire helping the little people by killing the Fomorian to the north(+10), fail (-10)

 

7 - North of the Spire taking the ant ring (spearflinger) and attacking the green haired sprite or fleeing no change, give it to her (+10)

 

8 - Southwest of Nethergate at the crossroad the blind beggar - give (+10) rob (-10) and get a silver bracelet

 

9 - Stone circle near Crone Cavern take items (-5)

 

10 - Hut east of Crone Cavern - leave alone (+10) , rob for some herbs

 

11 - Attacking the GIFTS sentry (-5), turns the place hostile

 

12 - Kill the GIFTS babies in Maze of Webs (-15) don't do this before finishing quests

 

The good reward is northwest of the Hollow Hills and southeast of the Maze of Thorns in the place where a bright shaft of light appears. The evil reward is southwest of Vanarium.

 

I was wrong and missed one

 

It looks like Jeff left out some points to deliberately make it impossible to get both rewards. Use 30 points to get the good reward and there are 73 evil points left. Five less if playing Celts.

 

The flag is (139,1) for those that want to check scripts.

 

(139,3) is marked as killer and causes some places to be hostile or blocked. This is part of the evil "reward."

[Spidweb]

"It looks like Jeff left out some points to deliberately make it impossible to get both rewards."

 

I am not smart enough. I just got lucky. :-)

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Slawbug]

Actually, not so lucky.

 

You missed one adjustment Randomizer, and it's a big one, enough to tip the scales and allow powergaming of both rewards.

[Randomizer]

I thought I got them all. I did get tired going through the scripts.

[Slawbug]

I think you got all of the ones in outdoor scripts...

[Sudanna]

Rescuing that one guys' daughter in Golag - Nar, or something like that, gives you good points.

[Slawbug]

Whoops. I missed an adjustment, too!

 

There's a huge one though that both sides can get.

[Sudanna]

Would you mind telling us what it is?

[Randomizer]

I missed the GIFTS one in Maze of Webs for -15 when you kill their babies.

 

I don't see any change for rescuing Bevan's daughter.

[Synergy]

This reputation list looks unfinished. Are there inverse points not listed for inverse actions below?

 

• North of the Spire taking the ant ring (spearflinger) and attacking the green haired sprite (?), give it to her (+10)

 

• Stone Circle near the Crones’ Cavern: Take items (-5)

 

• Hut east of Crone Cavern: Leave alone (+10)

 

• Attacking the GIFTS sentry (-5) (turns the place hostile)

 

I'm trying to assemble this list to powergame both ways and want to be sure I'm not missing any vital details here to do my math and make my choices.

 

-S-

[Synergy]

Gah! I haven't double-clicked a posting in a long time. Well, I hadn't until today.

 

-S-

[Randomizer]

I checked while finding the GIFTS one in the Maze of Webs and there don't seem to be corresponding ones that change the reputation points. Whether Jeff got lazy or it was deliberate there don't seem to be any.

 

You can check by opening each script and use find command for 139,1 to locate each place.

 

The easiest way is to go good and then rob people for the nicer items like strength bracelet.

[Synergy]

So, here's my scheme for powergaming for both rewards. I don't want to have to attack the gryphons, though I could see substituting it for killing the Fomorian for the little people. I wonder how you "fail" at the latter task? Do you have to face the Fomorian, but back out of combat and report to the little people? How is failing distinguished from simply not having done it yet? Does "failing" simply mean "refusing?" This is a concern until specified.

 

POSITIVE

 

• Hut east of Crone Cavern: Leave alone (+10)

 

• North of the Spire taking the ant ring (spearflinger) and attacking the green haired sprite (?), give it to her (+10)

 

• Near Jagged Aerie the trapped gryphon - help (+10),attack (-10) makes the Aerie hostile, but you can get past the sentinel gryphon with food to get to the molting gryphon so you can postpone decision

 

100 + 30 = 130

 

• Stone Circle near the Crones’ Cavern: Take items (-5) [don’t do it]

 

NEGATIVE

 

• Southwest of Nethergate at the crossroad the blind beggar - give (+10) rob (-10, silver bracelet)

 

• North of the Hollow Hills releasing (+10) or robbing the bound Selkie (-10), leave (-3)

 

• North of the Spire helping the little people by killing the Fomorian to the north (+10), fail (-10)

 

• South of Vanarium helping Adams get the wolf (+5) or robbing him (-8)

 

• Near Faeire Bazaar helping Conn-give (+5), no (-5)

 

• Attacking the GIFTS sentry (-5) (turns the place hostile)

 

• Kill the GIFTS babies in Maze of Webs (-15) (don't do this before finishing quests)

 

130 - 63 = 67

 

-S-

[Synergy]

• North of the Spire helping the little people by killing the Fomorian to the north (+10), fail (-10)

 

By "fail", I am guessing it means "decline to help"?

 

I hope so, because that's what I just did.

 

-S-

[Randomizer]

I'm not sure what it means to fail the little people. The script indicates that they get sad and decide to move away so that will be an indication that you failed.

 

Personally I would help them since it need Faerie lore of 2 to get the quest and then kill the fomorian. You can use food (mutton) to get past the gryphon sentry and get the feather, then after doing all the Jagged Aerie you can always go and kill the trapped gryphon.

[Synergy]

I needed to get that first reputation reward soonest, and the Gryphon Aerie happens for me later in the game (I need Dexterity of 6 there to make it worth the bother!) I already got my positive reputation reward and have only to take out the GIFTS to get the negative, and I haven't even done Goagh-Nar yet. It's my understanding that going that negative makes the Faery Bazaar angry at you...and who else?

 

-S-

 

EDIT: Dexterity of 6 is required in the Jagged Aerie.

[Randomizer]

Once you claim the negative reward you are marked as a murderer which also happens when you kill stray merchants and Raven.

 

I know that the Faerie Bazaar attacks automatically and that part of the Celtic Shrine below ground is blocked off. I assume that the Hollow Hills is also hostile. You can check the scripts by looking for "139,3" and see where they verify if it is 1 or higher.

[Synergy]

I did everything according to my power gaming plan above. I got the message that the little people had moved away after refusing to help them. I've killed all the GIFTS and their eggs. I've done it all, man, but I can't get my evil reward in the Small Vale by Vanarium.

 

I am guessing that a positive reward has been missed somewhere. There were a couple positive-seeming tasks I did during this game that aren't on the list at all. Has anyone actually acquired both the positive and negative reward in one game?

 

-S-

[kuniqs]

Excuse for thread necromancy, but I've browsed the scripts and turns out if you refuse to help the little people you get 0 change in alignment.

 

It's possible for both Romans and Celts to get both rewards, as follows:

1. Leave herbs in the hut east of Ruined Hall (+10),

2. Give the ant ring to sprite north of Spire (+10),

3. Help the little people (+10),

4. Collect the good reward,

5. Rob the wolf hunter (-8),

6. Attack the GIFT sentry (-5),

7. Kill GIFT babies (-15),

8. Don't give Conn money (-5),

9. Rob the bound selkie (-10),

10. Kill the trapped gryphon (-10),

11. Rob the beggar near Nethergate (-10),

12. Collect the evil reward.

 

The remaining alignment-changing actions are:

1. Take items from the stone circle east of Crone Caverns (-5, don't do this as it reduces your party's dexterity by 1!),

2. Attack the hungry fomorian near Bazaar (-5, Roman-exclusive).