Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I remember with oldschool avernum there was a night and day and there might have even been a few differences. Will A: EFTP have a night and day aspect like the original and will that affect gameplay (rolls). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I doubt it. The game is set underground. Night and day aren't really a thing. (They weren't in any game except Avernum 3, either.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Even in A3 the day and night cycle was for appearances only. —Alorael who wouldn't expect it to show up until the third remake. A day/night cycle really makes no sense in a cave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 That makes me wonder. Does cave fungus glow all the time or intermittently? Can we say that the fungus set when it gets dark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 What comes to your mind when you hear "night and day"? What comes to your mind when you hear "day and night"? Isn't language funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Originally Posted By: The Turtle Moves What comes to your mind when you hear "night and day"? What comes to your mind when you hear "day and night"? In both cases, . I used to own the movie it's from, too. Anyway, back to topic: I've often wondered how they keep time in Avernum. Maybe someone was sent down with a clock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: The Mystic Originally Posted By: The Turtle Moves What comes to your mind when you hear "night and day"? What comes to your mind when you hear "day and night"? In both cases, . I used to own the movie it's from, too. Anyway, back to topic: I've often wondered how they keep time in Avernum. Maybe someone was sent down with a clock? Shroom-dials? Or maybe the wizards beamed down an hourglass from the surface? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You could probably set your hourglass by the timing of the daily teleport. Everyone knows how anal the Empire is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Rent-an-Ihrno Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Maybe the animals have some kind of observable bio-rhythm based on something we cannot sense ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Maybe they just counted, adding 'elephant' between numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd RogueGypsy47 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Candles, I imagine. >.> Although, I don't put it past Solberg to invent a water clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Rent-an-Ihrno Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Structualise THIS! Maybe they just counted, adding 'elephant' between numbers? I thought it was Mississippi. ...but then, there probably isn't a Mississippi in Sanctuary. Maybe the early Avernites counted 1, Fort Avernum, 2, Fort Avernum... And yes, I guess candles would work. But where does all the wax come from? And how to standardize the measurement all across the caves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 In Sanctuary? —Alorael, who assumes there's a Mississippi if Bush decided to banish everyone to the caves under Louisiana. It's just one state over! And that's your exceptionally old reference for today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish mauvebutterfly Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno Originally Posted By: Structualise THIS! Maybe they just counted, adding 'elephant' between numbers? And yes, I guess candles would work. But where does all the wax come from? Maybe chitrachs will finally be good for something… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Madd The Sane Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I remember there being days that did different things (like sales, or when you could go into a crypt). So there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno Originally Posted By: Structualise THIS! Maybe they just counted, adding 'elephant' between numbers? I thought it was Mississippi. ...but then, there probably isn't a Mississippi in Sanctuary. Maybe the early Avernites counted 1, Fort Avernum, 2, Fort Avernum... There probably aren't any elephants, either. Unless that's the new town JV's including. Beta testers? (Also, it is 'elephants'.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Elephant(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Rent-an-Ihrno Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Elephants could very well exist on the surface, as we probably haven't seen 100% of the world's fauna in A3/E3. A Mississippi river however, is much less likely since Jeff doesn't use words from our world when describing geography in particular. I realize now that Sanctuary is the name of the mortal realm in the Diablo series. What the heck is the name for the world of Exile? I thought of chitrachs too, but decided that their slime would not make acceptable candle-sticks. ...measurable oil/slime-lamps?... Still, you could only keep track of temporal stuff in your local vicinity, not compare it to that of far away in another cave, let alone on the surface. Unless Erika far-sighted up there once an hour to check on things. Like the sun. She wouldn't burn if she looked at the sun in a vision, would she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno I realize now that Sanctuary is the name of the mortal realm in the Diablo series. What the heck is the name for the world of Exile? Ermarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Kennedy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Maybe they measured the rate of atomic decay on one of those bars of uranium to keep time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Kennedy Maybe they measured the rate of atomic decay on one of those bars of uranium to keep time? how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody waterplant Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 With an atomic clock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Atomic clocks don't measure decay. You could rig up a nuclear clock with a Geiger counter, but ultimately I think a magical uranium decay clock makes the most sense. —Alorael, who uses "sense" very, very loosely here. You know, because a wizard did ti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 or maybe someone just smuggled a clock in when they were sent down the portal. or perhaps joe clockmaker told the emperor to suck one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Arch-Mage Solberg Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I too do not see the real need of a night and day difference in the Avernum games (3rd being excused for obvious reasons). Originally Posted By: RogueGypsy47 Candles, I imagine. >.> Although, I don't put it past Solberg to invent a water clock. So it was you that was pilfering through my notes, was it? *mumbles As if it matters to you (it don't), my design doesn't use water to tell time...it only has water in it. You could hardly begin to comprehend the magnitude of this majestic clock. Now where are my glasses? *spends 45 min looking for his glasses and finds them on top of his bald head! Post #632 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Lauren CW Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I always assumed it was a function of the glowing fungi on the ceiling. Something like, they glow less the later it gets. They may not always have a 100% accurate time, but they could at least tell days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Actually, it occurs to me that during all of the games there's a fairly simple way to tell time. In A1, the Avernites ask the newly exiled. In A2, they ask captured opponents, or their intrepid spies infiltrate the Empire's forts and camps to steal scheduling information. In A3, of course, it's someone's job to go look outside Fort Emergence just a little bit to see how much the light has changed. —Alorael, who imagines things got complicated when the portal in Fort Avernum was shut down before the invasion and after the war but before Fort Emergence was built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well, magical scrying is well established. It's difficult, but it is clearly easier than teleportation. So they could use that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Rent-an-Ihrno Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 If Erika really did create the Glowing Fungus, she could have programmed it differently for every cave, so that if you were a day-person, you could just hang out in one of those with longer and brighter day-cycles, or if you were planning an extensive weekend of celebration of some sort, you could do it in one of the party caves where the night never stops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Erika did not create the glowing fungus. This is well-established: the Vahnatai created it. Erika did something to make sure Exile/Avernum had plenty of high-glow fungus. Whether she augmented it or simply encouraged its reproduction is unclear. Regardless, why is a regular day-night cycle necessary anyway? Since the many dangerous denizens of the caves presumably woke and slept at their discretion, it would actually seem a bad idea to have a long period of time where most people were asleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Regardless, why is a regular day-night cycle necessary anyway? Since the many dangerous denizens of the caves presumably woke and slept at their discretion, it would actually seem a bad idea to have a long period of time where most people were asleep. Good idea or not, it's canonical that there is such a period of time. Someone in one of the towns in one of the Exiles (I want to say Blosk in E2?) mentions somebody sneaking into a house to steal items during "the period of sleep". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 A day-night cycle is probably necessary because people would feel weird without it and because it's convenient to have everyone on the same hours. You want to know when the shops are open, when the farmers are in town selling their mushrooms, and when your boss expects you at work. Of course, how everyone tells time is still something of a mystery. A wizard could tell you, possibly, but you can't carry around your own pocket wizard. —Alorael, who can't even see candle clocks being the solution for everyone. Candles are expensive, especially for wax-poor Avernum. Everyone's not going to keep candles burning constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd RogueGypsy47 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 "Welcome to Avernum, what time was it when they chucked your butt down here?" That idea makes me giggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Venatrix Avia Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I always imagined that the candles (and the oil that the lamps and torches used as well, for that matter) were made from some kind of rendered lizard tallow. It was the only way I could justify them being so inexpensive. In my imagination, they also smelled really, really awful. And were used to keep the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Originally Posted By: In the beginning was the A A wizard could tell you, possibly, but you can't carry around your own pocket wizard. each has their own pocket-demon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm sure there are other sorts of regular rhythms of the caves that could be used to set up time, independent of the sun. A drip happening once per minute, for instance, or the Slithzerikai leading a raid on the Great Cave at the same time each day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 How would the Sliths know what time it was in the first place, and why would they be so stupid as to raid at a consistent and predictable time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S How would the Sliths know what time it was in the first place, and why would they be so stupid as to raid at a consistent and predictable time? As cave denizens, they're more likely to have a sense of time that's attuned to the caves than freshly Exiled humans. As for them being so stupid, Sss-Thsss never struck me as the most brilliant of leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 "attuned to the caves"??? Sss-Thsss wasn't brilliant. But he was an effective enough military leader to avoid being defeated by brilliant wizards and successful generals on the other side. And Sliths in general are supposed to be very smart: remember that +2 Intelligence bonus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 The sliths are very likely to have some system of telling time, because it's hard to organize a society without schedules. But they may well rely on magic, or priests. Or some innate lizard time-sense. —Alorael, who now wonders if the Avernites don't rely on animals. Bats have a fairly good innate sense of time. Maybe days are counted by bat activity cycles. Maybe bats do distinctive things in convenient hour increments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 CAVE COW CLOCKS HIS AND HER GIFT TO HUMANKINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 volcano erupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 To be a volcano, it has to make it to the surface, not Avernum. There also doesn't seem to be a lot of activity, just lava floating around. But maybe there are regular lava geysers. —Alorael, who again thinks that might be fine locally, but not as a general system of knowing what time it is or when to come in from the mushroom fields and have dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Why is it actually necessary to tell time? Obviously it's useful, but I think society could be organized and functional without it -- particularly if we are talking about a sparse, low population, early neolithic society, as Exile was described as in E/A 1. A family or group of farmers would presumably sleep and wake at similar times even if they don't follow the exact rhythm of a 24-hour day. Why does it matter exactly when that stuff happens? If they go to a settlement to sell crops, somebody will likely be awake. Neolithic means people do not have appointments, secretaries, or fast communications. Why does everyone have to sleep and work at the same time? Why must meals be synchronized? Who is in such a hurry to do stuff, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Except E/A1 isn't really neolithic at all. The population has plenty of farmers, but it's organized around walled urban centers. The population has many craftsman, mages, and priests in those cities. Even those farmers aren't all at a subsistence level; plenty have produce to sell to passing adventurers. There are many shops and markets. There is a dedicated ruling/political group with bureaucracy. Why synchronize? Because if you're making a trip into town to buy something, you don't want to have to weight eight hours for the shopkeeper to arrive. If you're selling your produce, it's good for everyone to have some idea of when you'll be there. Mayors probably do have schedules with appointments, and they need to be able to communicate with the Castle with some degree of speed, and they need to know when to meet as a council. —Alorael, who thinks the biggest problem is that Avernites are all from the surface. They're used to schedules, and they're likely to try to maintain them. They might be forced to give them up, but they'd do so grudgingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Originally Posted By: -–— Why synchronize? Because if you're making a trip into town to buy something, you don't want to have to weight eight hours for the shopkeeper to arrive. Yeah, time must be pretty heavy as it passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Durr. —Alorael, who has been making increasing number of homophone substitutions recently. He's also been posting more while speaking. He thinks there's probably some deep psychology behind switching to sound-based spelling and using sound to communicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 That's okay, everyone's entitled to a missteak every now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Have you ever seen Alorael make a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 ...He just pointed one out. —Alorael, who wouldn't say that he's made more than his fair share. He's just made his fair share of mistakes, and he's said enough things that that's a pretty big share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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