Buying a second computer

[The Ratt]

So, I am thinking about buying a second computer. I currently have a laptop that is adequate for everything that I do. However, being a computer science major it is almost expected that I run a Linux system. To accommodate this expectation I am considering purchasing a desktop, to which I would migrate my current system, and turning my laptop into a dual boot machine.

 

Pros of buying the desktop include better performance of my current software (games), having a linux system available, and having a desktop and laptop for after college.

 

The only real thing that's stopping me from buying the desktop is money. The computer in question would cost close to $2000. I have the funds, and enough extra to continue my current style of living, but I'm not sure if the $2000 would be severely missed within the next year or so; I might be studying abroad next year.

 

Cons of buying the desktop besides the cost would include transporting the computer (I will probably be flying home for summer break), and the concern that I wouldn't actually use the laptop that much.

 

So what is your opinion? Should I buy the desktop? Why, or why not? Are there other pros or cons you can think of? Do you need more information before you make a decision? Let me know.

[Randomizer]

The best reason to buy a desktop is the ease of upgrading parts without having to replace the whole computer. If you know enough or ask around you can assemble a system yourself.

 

A laptop is great for portability, but you already have one and can probably continue using it for most other uses. Just shift game playing and other uses that would benefit from a new system over to the new computer.

[Niemand]

Is there a reason not to set up the laptop to dual-boot without getting the desktop? (I suppose the need for hard drive space for a second OS might be one.)

 

I'm very much one-computer person; I have one good laptop at a time which I use for everything. The advantage that I like is having everything I use with me, all the time. The main disadvantage, however, is that for this to work it needs to be a fairly nice, and therefore somewhat expensive, laptop. It sounds like this route isn't necessarily one in which you would be interested.

 

It's also worth noting that if you want a POSIX compatible OS you do have plenty of options besides Linux. I favor Mac OS, there are also the various flavors of BSD. They all play pretty well together, leaving Windows as the funny, incompatible one.

[Alorael at Large]

Why are you expected to run Linux? If you're just buying computers to fit into the CS clique, don't waste your money. If you need software, you might need Linux, but you might not. There aren't a huge number of things that are Linux-only.

 

—Alorael, who is a fan of using a single computer. As someone no longer doing it, it's really not worthwhile unless you can very easily compartmentalize your use.

[Rowen]

I vote no because there is a lot of other things that the $2000 can go towards rather than "accommodate[ing] this expectation" that you need to run Linux. That's like buying a MBP just cause you want to hang with Mac kids at the parties. Its just not something that I can easily justify for myself or my financial dependents.

 

If you do feel that a desk top is worth getting, I recomend that you build one and for 2 grand you can build a nice one. From personal experience, a computer that costs X dollars is superior to a same costing pre-built computer (HP, Dell, ext.). The only part that worries some people about custom builds is the warranties, or lack there of.

[Dintiradan]

I disagree with Alorael and Rowen; as a CompSci student, you don't have a Linux box to fit in with the crowd, you have a Linux box so your work environment at home is similar to your work environment in the labs.

 

Is it an absolute necessity? Well, no. After all, you can just do all your work at school. You can make your (I assume) Windows setup work with stuff like Cygwin and PuTTY, but it's no real substitute. In my experience, the sooner you get used to Linux (or some other POSIX compliant OS), the better. If you're doing systems programming, I'd say getting Linux at home is a must.

 

(Another option you might want to look into is virtualization. This is something my department has been moving towards in the past few years. Getting undergrads to successfully set up their home systems and install all the required software and configure their environments correctly is a pain in the neck. So we're starting to just give out images instead. See if your department does this.)

 

Like Niemand says, why not just dual boot your laptop and leave it at that? I mean, you're already using your laptop for everything now. Is the desktop purchase an education expense, or is it just a better gaming rig? It's fine if it's the latter, just budget accordingly.

 

(Regarding single/multiple computers: meh, I just keep everything under version control.)

 

(Regarding other POSIX operating systems: I don't think you can dual boot Macs (at least not 'real' dual booting). I remember bricking an old Toshiba laptop trying to dual boot OpenBSD and Windows 98. Setting up dual boot for distros like Ubuntu is a lot easier, so I'd recommend just sticking with Linux.)

[Tyranicus]

If you are a PC user, why in God's name are you buying a $2000 computer? If you are a Mac user, you might consider a hackintosh to bring down costs. You can build a very good PC for less than $1000.

[Tycho Maudd]

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

If you are a PC user, why in God's name are you buying a $2000 computer? If you are a Mac user, you might consider a hackintosh to bring down costs. You can build a very good PC for less than $1000.

I second this, for a secondary computer there is no reason to spend that much. I built my current desktop to be a hackintosh and the total cost of it was about $600. Of course you end up needing to build it yourself but that's pretty easy now a days.

[Earth]

with 2 grand could buy alienware pc.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Dintiradan

I disagree with Alorael and Rowen; as a CompSci student, you don't have a Linux box to fit in with the crowd, you have a Linux box so your work environment at home is similar to your work environment in the labs.

Is it an absolute necessity? Well, no. After all, you can just do all your work at school. You can make your (I assume) Windows setup work with stuff like Cygwin and PuTTY, but it's no real substitute. In my experience, the sooner you get used to Linux (or some other POSIX compliant OS), the better. If you're doing systems programming, I'd say getting Linux at home is a must.

Sure, but I'm left with the same question: is it worth $2000? I'd be put off by that price. It's certainly possible to do most of your work at school, and it's even more possible to come up with other solutions that don't require two grand. Dual booting, virtualization, or if all else fails buying a really cheap box to sit at home and run Linux.

—Alorael, who could definitely see using this as an opportunity to buy a new gaming rig. As presented, though, it would make much more sense to keep using the laptop as it is and add the Linux for dual-booting, or if that's not possible just buy a cheap Linux extra. $2000 isn't a course requirement, it's a rationalization.

[keira]

I'd just like to say that my Linux box I use is running with 512 MiB of ram and an 866 processor. I've never had any noticeable performance issues with it. Of course, I'm not running X or anything, but a true linux user doesn't need pesky things like graphics, do they?

[Harehunter]

I vote no because I don't feel your justification is adequate. Feeling that you *have to* be running linux because it is *expected* of you is pretty lame.

 

At work, I live in the world of unix, and I prefer the environment for what I do; working with Oracle databases. I have a few Oracle databases running on Windows, and those are a pane in the glass pain in the keister. Of course my interface with those servers is through a Windows client, so I have to have a good working knowledge of those.

 

I have never bought a name brand PC for personal use. I have built over a dozen machines from parts alone, installing all the software personally. I have never spent over $900 for a machine. True, I don't run the latest versions of stuff, but hey, if it ain't baroque, don't fix it.

 

After my last rebuild project, I converted my previous machine to linux and found that it easily equaled the performance of my newer, faster Windows machine. Again, in linux/unix land, the only use I have for gui's is when the installer doesn't have a console mode.

 

Dual boot does fit the needs you specified, but with the availability of Virtual Machine OS's, I would have to recommend them over dual boot. With VM you gain the advantage of having both environments running at the same time. The one disadvantage is the increase of disk requirements. Here is where I would recommend -building- a midi-tower with lots of expansion room for disk drives. In this scenario, dual, or even better, quad core processors are to be desired.

 

I've just checked Fry's and found a AMD quad core, 6Gb RAM, 1Tb disk, DVD R/W, Radeon graphics for $599, with Windows 7 installed. Now my mouth is watering like Pavlov's dogs. Add Open Office, and a VM environment running linux and an Oracle 11g rdbms with webserver (there is a free single user license available), and you can rise to the level of UberGeek. That is intended as desirable status.

[The Ratt]

Well, thank you everyone for your thoughts. After consideration and research I have decided that I'm going to build my own computer. The build is as follows:

 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z68xp-ud4

Processor: Intel core i5-2500K

RAM: Corsair Vengeance Blue 16GB RAM

Optical Drive: Sony Optiarc DVD drive

PSU: OCZ Fatal1ty 750W

HD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB

Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 6870

Case: Cooler Master HAF 912

 

Add on a couple fans and a monitor, and you get a nice computer setup for about $1200.

[Earth]

16GB ram? for what the heck you need that much memory?

 

fanned cases might be around same price as non-fanned cases + fans.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

16GB ram? for what the heck you need that much memory?

fanned cases might be around same price as non-fanned cases + fans.

I have 8 GB of RAM, and pretty much the only time I run out is when I'm trying to manipulate enormous lists in Mathematica that have like a hundred million entries. You don't really need that much beyond 8.

[The Ratt]

Meh. I already bought it so can't change that. Plus, now I won't need a ram expansion in 4 or so years.

[Alorael at Large]

Future proofing isn't unreasonable. When I bought my last laptop I got it with 2 GB memory, more than I'd ever need. Well, now sometimes it's hitting its limits. Granted, that shouldn't be a problem if you aren't either doing intense data crunching or running games, but with that video card games seem likely. It's modular enough that you should upgrade, and there's no strong reason not to start out with excess RAM, is there?

 

—Alorael, who is grudgingly looking into replacing his beloved but slightly aged, slightly damaged, and slightly ailing laptop. Of course, he's also looking into repairs. Even a couple more years of use would be very nice from a computer that was, shortly after purchase, bent into a shallow V shape.

[Harehunter]

What you have is essentially a server-class machine. Now, I am truly jealous (not really, I have a half dozen of machines I administrate at work ). If you really want to go the route of a virtual machine, that 16Gb of memory can get eaten quite rapidly;

1. the core zone, the VM OS itself

2. a windows zone, for all those apps that you cannot find an equivalent for

3. a linux zone, for your database to run in

4. another linux zone, for your http server and application layer; yes, you want this separate from your DB, trust me.

5? can you put MAC OS in a VM?

 

Enjoy!

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

5? can you put MAC OS in a VM?

You can run the latest version of OS X (10.7) in a VM and the server versions of 10.5 and 10.6 in VMs. I think you can do this only from an OS X host OS though. I haven't tried doing it from another OS.

[Earth]

It seems possible to install OSX Lion to VM running on Win7, http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/...side-windows-7/

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

It seems possible to install OSX Lion to VM running on Win7, http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2011/09/how-to-install-fully-functional-mac-os-x-lion-virtual-machine-inside-windows-7/

Not without violating the license agreement and modifying the virtual machine software. This is a legal gray area if you have actually purchased OS X, but even so, you still have to modify the software to get it to work in the first place.

[Earth]

yea apple's tos is pretty much against that.

[Aran]

What on Earth do you put in a $2000 desktop? My last one cost barely $500 (sans TFT screen, but including two HDDs and SSD) and about the only thing it lacked to be game-worthy (when I put it together in '09, mind you; it's a bit old now) was a dedicated GPU.

 

Have you considered putting together a custom machine with Linux, and leaving the old system as it is? You can build a decent (non-gaming, but great for power users) desktop on a fairly small budget. The drawback would be being stuck with an older machine for your non-Linux usage for the time being.

[The Ratt]

Originally Posted By: Polaran

What on Earth do you put in a $2000 desktop? My last one cost barely $500 (sans TFT screen, but including two HDDs and SSD) and about the only thing it lacked to be game-worthy (when I put it together in '09, mind you; it's a bit old now) was a dedicated GPU.

Have you considered putting together a custom machine with Linux, and leaving the old system as it is? You can build a decent (non-gaming, but great for power users) desktop on a fairly small budget. The drawback would be being stuck with an older machine for your non-Linux usage for the time being.

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

...build info...

for about $1200.

[Earth]

some1 was asking elsewhere opinions about new computer and he wanted 32GB memory so 16G isn't much compared to that.

[Aran]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

Originally Posted By: Polaran

What on Earth do you put in a $2000 desktop? My last one cost barely $500 (sans TFT screen, but including two HDDs and SSD) and about the only thing it lacked to be game-worthy (when I put it together in '09, mind you; it's a bit old now) was a dedicated GPU.

Have you considered putting together a custom machine with Linux, and leaving the old system as it is? You can build a decent (non-gaming, but great for power users) desktop on a fairly small budget. The drawback would be being stuck with an older machine for your non-Linux usage for the time being.

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

...build info...

for about $1200.

Whoops, I overlooked that post.

Well, that seems more reasonable for a self-built Intel machine.

(My $500 estimate was based on an AMD64 architecture, of course.)

[Death Knight]

It depends on what you are trying to do. For example, i bought a netbook for $60.00 at bestbuy and it works really well for games like the ones i play (fallout 1,2, tactics, Lionheart and almost anything from spiderweb works too). However, games like avadon run with minor glitches that you can handle. I am probably going to have to add a 2 gb chip to it when i get the chance. However, considering the price i got lucky as it was decreased over 5 years from never being looked at.

 

I would recommend buying a laptop as you can bring it anywhere. I would not recommend getting a cheap one like mine though. Buy one that you dont have to upgrade but isnt going to steal your wallet. If i could have done it over, i would have bought a larger laptop than mine for 2 or 300 dollars more.

[Earth]

Avadon and A6 and A1.1 etc require more good graphic card than ram.

[Metatron]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/c...piron-17r-n7110

 

Code:

PROCESSOR	2nd generation Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM processor 2.20 GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.10 GHz	MEMORY	6GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 Memory	HARD DRIVE	640GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive	VIDEO CARD	NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 525M (128-bit) 2GB

for $799.99? Sounds like a good deal, I think. Should I go for it? Does anyone have opinions on Dell manufacturing, support, and durability?

[Dikiyoba]

I've had a couple of Inspirons. I've never had any problems with the manufacturing, but I'm not impressed by the durability. They fizzle out after just a few years, and my latest one had a catastrophic hard drive failure.

 

Admittedly, Dikiyoba used those laptops constantly, so they might last longer if with lighter use.

[Earth]

if you replace cxore i7 with i5 you can get better graphic card like on msi's comp on link:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152264