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I've had it (Redbeard)


robert1

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Long time player of Spiderweb software here.

 

That's it. I'm out. I'm so disgusted/frustrated, I have no desire to finish this. I've beaten Avernum 1-6, most Bioware games, and this is the first spiderweb game that's done me in.

 

I play most of the game on normal and enjoyed it. Now at Redbeard, I've tried 10 times, dropping the game to the easiest level, and... it' freakin' impossible.

 

I can't keep him below 3-4 souljars, and it's really not fun dropping his hitpoints 10pts per strike with my team of 5 level 30 players.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. You win, Jeff! You've defeated me!

 

I'm out. I don't have a problem dropping the difficulty, but as a veteran of these games, 10 x at the easiest level tells me somethings wrong with game design here.

 

 

 

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This is the most frustrating fight because you have to keep at least two characters destroying soul jars. It helps to use lots of potions and scrolls to stay on speed.

 

Welcome to Spiderweb Software. Please leave your sanity at the door.

 

Wait you don't have any left after that fight.

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Well, I finally did it this morning. I figured out it's best to keep your party in just one of the side rooms and work on trying to keep him down to just 2 souljars. Completely ignored the other sideroom and its 2 souljars.

 

Even with this strategy, the battle still took at least 45 minutes - and that's on "casual". I know the last battle can't be anti-climactic. But this was a ridiculously hard and frustrating ending, even on the easiest setting, for a game that was otherwise pretty reasonable on "normal" for the rest of the time.

 

Apologies for the rant earlier, but this whole thing kinda left a sour taste after an otherwise great experience.

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This is supposed to be an optional fight, but unfortunately the game narrative makes it out to be one that the player actually should be motivated to do. Near the end, if you could have an alternative choice of working for the other side as a double agent that was encouraged rather than replacing him outright, which would be discouraged by everyone as being impossible, then I think the difficulty of this fight would have been more appropriate.

 

The other problem is that Redbeard is inherently a defensive foe. He won't overwhelm you with power in as much as he just wares you down in a battle of attrition.

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That's it exactly.

 

The blue dragon is clearly optional. But if you're truly role-playing, and don't have meta-game knowledge of his infinitely regenerating immunity-givers, the Redbeard battle is one of the core moral choices you are set to make in this game. It's not set up like a "feather in your cap" accomplishment to do just for the challenge of it.

 

When I play through again (I enjoyed the game enough to do so), I will know that the most valuable resources to stock up on and hoard until the final battle are speed potions.

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Originally Posted By: robert1

When I play through again (I enjoyed the game enough to do so), I will know that the most valuable resources to stock up on and hoard until the final battle are speed potions.


Oof. Yeah, speed items are pretty much essential for having a reasonable shot at Zephyrine and Redbeard: lose your ability to take two actions a round, and you can get overwhelmed very quickly. With the right preparation, the fight goes from awful to just moderately frustrating -- which is still more frustrating than it should be.
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Originally Posted By: Lilith
Oof. Yeah, speed items are pretty much essential for having a reasonable shot at Zephyrine and Redbeard: lose your ability to take two actions a round, and you can get overwhelmed very quickly. With the right preparation, the fight goes from awful to just moderately frustrating -- which is still more frustrating than it should be.

It's funny, because in prior Spiderweb games, I've mostly tried to get through battles using as few potions as possible, saving them in case I needed them in the future. Then I'd end up finishing the game with hoards of unused potions.

So this time around, I decided "potions are there for a reason", and used them throughout the game. And then, ironically, this was the one time I wish I'd had more of them stockpiled until the end.
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Man, I got to that point in the game and was basically like, "Redbeard, you've got your problems, but the heck if I'm going to let someone manipulate me into fighting you." So I never even tried to fight him. Just didn't feel right.

 

Honestly, by the end of the game, I was feeling pretty bad for helping my party members out with their side quests. They were starting to seem like a bunch of whiny babies.

 

 

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Originally Posted By: The Turtle Moves
They are a bunch of whiny babies. Shima is the worst.


I am reminded of Jeff's thoughts on companion quests in his review of Mass Effect 2:

Originally Posted By: JV
Also, if you are forced to have these yahoos on your ship, "helping you", asking for favors, and bugging you with their issues, you should always have the option of feeding them into the mass-energy reactor. Hey, your ship has to be fueled somehow.


So will we be able to feed our companions to Redbeard's shark tank while twirling our mustaches in Avadon II?
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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Originally Posted By: JV
Also, if you are forced to have these yahoos on your ship, "helping you", asking for favors, and bugging you with their issues, you should always have the option of feeding them into the mass-energy reactor. Hey, your ship has to be fueled somehow.


So will we be able to feed our companions to Redbeard's shark tank while twirling our mustaches in Avadon II?

Yes and no. No twirling especially if you are playing a sorceress or shaman.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Originally Posted By: Sterno
Man, I got to that point in the game and was basically like, "Redbeard, you've got your problems, but the heck if I'm going to let someone manipulate me into fighting you." So I never even tried to fight him. Just didn't feel right.

Honestly, by the end of the game, I was feeling pretty bad for helping my party members out with their side quests. They were starting to seem like a bunch of whiny babies.


Haha, I so agree. It seems like Redbeard (and me) are the only people in the entire game that are interested in actually trying for peace.

I especially hated the Khemerian part, where everyone was trying to get me to feel guilty. The guy was a selfish power-hungry dictator, why is everyone sacrificing themselves for him? Then they act like it's my fault. Not to mention they wouldn't hesitate to destroy another group if they got the opportunity, so another reason I don't really feel guilty.

It seems like everywhere I looked, everyone was angry at Avadon and Redbeard, but really we were the most neutral group. Each of the regions were totally gunning for each other then when I tell them to stop it, they act like I'm the bad guy... not to mention everyone is just a tool playing in the Tawon Empire's hands...
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Miranda did arrange for you to meet all the people who hate Avadon and did her best to make it be the people with the best cases. I guess she can't always be right.

 

—Alorael, who agrees that Avadon serves a good purpose. He just doesn't agree that the Keeper of Avadon is necessarily pursuing that mission with all due zeal. It's possible that he stands for the right things but is too tolerant of corruption and too heavy-handed to be left in his position.

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Originally Posted By: Am I not audible?
—Alorael, who agrees that Avadon serves a good purpose. He just doesn't agree that the Keeper of Avadon is necessarily pursuing that mission with all due zeal. It's possible that he stands for the right things but is too tolerant of corruption and too heavy-handed to be left in his position.


On the other hand, he's been the longest-lived Keeper so far by a significant margin, which seems to imply that he's at least good at running things in a way that doesn't get him killed -- which is kind of a prerequisite for getting anything else done.
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Better than his predecessors doesn't make him good. He also benefits from both the prolonged period of stability and his own reputation for being impossible to topple. If you topple him, you inherit a legacy of rather long Keepership and build a reputation as a seriously tough enemy. With a few thwarted assassinations under your belt, and you are starting with (probably) a very solid set of bodyguards and maybe some advisors ready to take on that task, you at least get a chance to try your hand at it.

 

—Alorael, who got the definite impression that while Redbeard brought order to the chaos of early Avadon, which was a definite talent, he also created decades during which Avadon's basic state wasn't upheaval. While you do have to upheave to take his place, you're not starting from scratch the way he essentially did.

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Is the Redbeard encounter (with the option to fight or not) the end of the game? After fighting him for 30 minutes I decided that it was too tedious to continue. For the way I did this playthrough, I don't really feel like letting Redbeard live, and unless there is more to the game after the encounter, I'll quit playing now.

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just beat redbeard.. wasn't a bad fight about 30-40 minutes- but I took the game slow and did everything..

 

the secret buttons on the wall gave it away, that was on normal too..

 

used the mage and shadow walker in both rooms.. the shadow walker rips them a new ass with high dex.. use the potion on them too and keep some speed on both of em

 

helps having high crit items on the mage too..then just use her staff to go full flamer..

 

rebeard got a little wrong end of the nightstick.. I was using the shaman as a mage with the scarabs all equipped for % magic damage and some drake skin booty pants.. taking big chunks out of redbeards ass along with all the animals.. it was like a vegas zoo in there

 

they surrounded him like it was cirque dood soliegh.. he squeeled a couple of times too when sevlin went big mike on him.. but mainly kept sevlin as the war squeeler to keep everyone hasted and battle frenzied..

 

if you couldn't beat him on easy.. what the heck.. I bent him over and played with his red beard like jim hensen

 

btw I love your game spider.. reminded me of the old school rpgs before games went to master bating the player =]

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It's harder, but it's also over much faster, one way or the other. Redbeard will drag on even if your victory is a foregone conclusion, and you can screw it up an hour in and have to start over.

 

—Alorael, who would like to give a reminder that these are family-friendly forums. Please keep suggestive content off of it.

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I actually think Zephyrine is easier. Yes her attacks do more damage and she probably has more hitpoints (so she might be harder on paper), but in terms of player involvement there's not much to the fight other than hacking away at her all while making sure that your characters don't die and occasionally moving them out of range.

 

The redbeard fight has the freaking clay golems, though, which have to constantly be managed as if you get behind at any point there's the chance that you'll get so far behind that you'll lose. Which really sucks if you are 1/2 hour into the fight.

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