Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tyranicus While technically grammatically incorrect, you usually can't go wrong with "they." That's what I usually use. Saying "he or she" is just too much of a hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Trenton Ok thats a rather disturbing thought. I cant imagine anything splitting in two. Then how do you split the last cookie in the jar/bag/wherever with a friend, if you don't split it in half? I sure hope you don't start eating on opposite ends, because that sounds really awkward. [Edit: Okay, that image was a lot bigger than I thought it was.] And Karoka, Dikiyoba knows you meant it as a joke, but that was quite an offensive comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Cairo Jim Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile. Ok thats a rather disturbing thought. I cant imagine anything splitting in two. *now has the thought of a human splitting from the groin up to the head with strands between them before they snap, and a shell like substance starts covering the halves as the organs reform* I almost threw up there, great job. Technically speaking, everyone starts off as 1 cell splitting into two cells, then four, so on and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Master1 As in other languages, the masculine is often the default, and can be used if the gender is unknown. (...) Technically, before our GNPs were around, one would say "his or her books" to be "politically correct." the problem with both of those approaches is neither of them works very well when you're talking about a specific person rather than a hypothetical one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba And Karoka, Dikiyoba knows you meant it as a joke, but that was quite an offensive comment. Oh, I meant it as a response to Tyran. Sorry, I guess I'll go fix that now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka Oh, I meant it as a response to Tyran. Sorry, I guess I'll go fix that now... I meant the reproduce comment, sorry. (Dikiyoba had some connection troubles and it took about twenty minutes to get that post through.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Originally Posted By: Karoka Oh, I meant it as a response to Tyran. Sorry, I guess I'll go fix that now... I meant the reproduce comment, sorry. (Dikiyoba had some connection troubles and it took about twenty minutes to get that post through.) ...oh. On a happier note, my mail has my last name spelled wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: dikiyoba Then how do you split the last cookie in the jar/bag/wherever with a friend, if you don't split it in half? I sure hope you don't start eating on opposite ends, because that sounds really awkward Well I wouldn't really mind going from opposite ends if it was a girl. DIKIYOBA! you got your green fyora avatar back! I liked that much better >.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile. Originally Posted By: dikiyoba Then how do you split the last cookie in the jar/bag/wherever with a friend, if you don't split it in half? I sure hope you don't start eating on opposite ends, because that sounds really awkward Well I wouldn't really mind going from opposite ends if it was a girl. Don't get me started on pasta. Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile DIKIYOBA! you got your green fyora avatar back! I liked that much better >.> "But think of the epileptic kittens!"-Dikiyoba's title that changed to something else in less than a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka Don't get me started on pasta. Go ahead. There, I got you started on pasta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I think it is pasta time for me to get back to work. I have to re-clone a database, so I'll get back to cloning around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tyranicus While technically grammatically incorrect, you usually can't go wrong with "they." The use of they/them/their as a gender-neutral singular pronoun is several hundred years old, so even prescriptivists don't have much of a case that it's "technically incorrect." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sarachim Originally Posted By: Tyranicus While technically grammatically incorrect, you usually can't go wrong with "they." The use of they/them/their as a gender-neutral singular pronoun is several hundred years old, so even prescriptivists don't have much of a case that it's "technically incorrect." All I know is that I had teachers who would dock points for using it that way in high school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Prescriptivists will sometimes claim "this is how it's always been" but that is always a lie, though one they probably believe themselves. The whole point of prescriptivism is that the correct usage is the one that is prescribed, whether or not that's the one that most people actually use. So to ascertain what is "technically correct" from a prescriptivist point of view, both historical and contemporary usage are totally irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I think it would be better just to say the name of it, I decided to call dikiyoba dikiyoba, not a he or a she. At first I thought it was too hard...Untill I heard I could call dikiyoba a they. I think thats ruder than it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Just be glad we don't have to use Latin, with all its declensions and conjugations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile. Untill I heard I could call dikiyoba a they. I think thats ruder than it. i agree. while you do score points for gender neutrality, i think that being called they is just insulting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I mean, who wants to be called an it? an it is a something! we are living beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 "It" truly is an insult and is used as such. "They" is not, and using a person's name whenever one would normally use a pronoun can get ridiculously awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 but dikiyoba does it. And I got out of the habbit of calling dikiyoba a he. dikiyoba is a dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Equally awkward, as least to my aged brain, is the tranposition of the word 'person' to replace 'man'. e.g. Chairman becomes Chairperson Congressman becomes Congressperson How about Firmen, Policemen. Actually, the first two examples are not that bothersome, but this could progress to some degree of silliness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Policeperson? Ill just stick with the Po-Po thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Police officer is the generally accepted term. As to a gender-neutral form of fireman, I don't think I have ever heard one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 fire-and-smoke-putter-outer-people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Metatron Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile. Thats me, I can run around the room like crazy...If I didnt weigh 214 pounds. And I cant listan to people, like I say what all the time. Wait. Wait wait wait. You weigh 214 pounds? That's not a joke or a typo? How tall are you? If you want to live a full active life, you need to lose weight. If you don't lose weight, you will die very early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yes. Well actually, when I last checked I was 211. Im 5 '2 in hight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tyranicus As to a gender-neutral form of fireman, I don't think I have ever heard one. Firefighter. Quote: "It" truly is an insult and is used as such. Actually, I know people who prefer "it" as their pronoun of choice. It all depends on how you use it, which is why GN pronouns get so complicated so fast. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Harehunter Just be glad we don't have to use Latin, with all its declensions and conjugations. Honestly, Latin is one of the simplest and least irregular languages I can think of. English, on the other hand, is widely considered to have one of the most difficult syntaxes to become fluent in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Actually, it depends on who you use it on. You just said that you know people who prefer "It" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Originally Posted By: Tyranicus As to a gender-neutral form of fireman, I don't think I have ever heard one. Firefighter. Good call. I had forgotten that one. Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Actually, I know people who prefer "it" as their pronoun of choice. It all depends on how you use it, which is why GN pronouns get so complicated so fast. I guess the important question is whether you personally find "they" to be offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I would prefer if I was a firefighter, to be called flame slayer! the amazing fireman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 to tell you the truth, i found the whole idea of gender neutrality offensive. i can understand the fact that most terms originally only meant men and that women are now in these jobs (mail carrier, fire fighter, police officer)and terms changed to reflect this reality, but to simply abolish the words he and she is just gender avoidance and going waay overboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Darth Ernie to tell you the truth, i found the whole idea of gender neutrality offensive. i can understand the fact that most terms originally only meant men and that women are now in these jobs (mail carrier, fire fighter, police officer)and terms changed to reflect this reality, but to simply abolish the words he and she is just gender avoidance and going waay overboard. When referring to someone who identifies as male or female, then you can absolutely use he or she. I don't believe anyone disputes this. The problem is when you do not know someone's gender, or when they do not identify themselves as part of the traditional gender binary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard a proposal to abolish "he" and "she." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I have, but it's hard to take seriously a proposal to overhaul something as basic as pronouns. Good luck getting that to happen without a transition like the one from Middle to Modern English. —Alorael, who has been annoyed by people who insist on using gender-neutral pronouns for everyone. He can understand not wanting to force a gender on someone, but he identifies as male and what like others to identify him that way as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Cairo Jim Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 The only problem I can see with using "they" is that it sounds more like its referring to group more than it does a single person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Cairo Jim The only problem I can see with using "they" is that it sounds more like its referring to group more than it does a single person. That can change over time. For instance, you nowadays can refer to a group of people or to just a single person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Goldenking Originally Posted By: Cairo Jim The only problem I can see with using "they" is that it sounds more like its referring to group more than it does a single person. That can change over time. For instance, you nowadays can refer to a group of people or to just a single person. actually when he said that it sounds like a group he meant now changing over time is something that people might wish happens but it is not in common usage yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Darth Ernie actually when he said that it sounds like a group he meant now changing over time is something that people might wish happens but it is not in common usage yet ~change begins with you~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Darth Ernie actually when he said that it sounds like a group he meant now changing over time is something that people might wish happens but it is not in common usage yet I am aware of the fact that Cairo Jim was referring to the present. I believe that, with consistent usage, "they" in the singular can be widely accepted as in the vogue within a generation. It may sound weird to us, even for some time, but it will be as normal as "Googling" is to us now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith ~change begins with you~ No, it begins with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 No it doesn't; it would have to be spelled 'themnge' or something for that to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Niemand No it doesn't; it would have to be spelled 'themnge' or something for that to be true. Niemand wins this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Originally Posted By: Harehunter Just be glad we don't have to use Latin, with all its declensions and conjugations. Honestly, Latin is one of the simplest and least irregular languages I can think of. English, on the other hand, is widely considered to have one of the most difficult syntaxes to become fluent in. The main problem with English is that it has become a melange of many lexical and syntactical elements. Pronunciation of words is particularly difficult as there has been no standard as to whether to keep the original spelling and change the pronunciation, or to keep the original pronunciation and change the spelling. Add to that the complex rules for conjugation of verbs, included a rather large set of irregular verbs that follow no particular rule. And the vocabulary is blend of Old English, based in part on the germanic tribes of Angles and Saxons and part of the Celtish dialects, blended with french from the conquering Normans, and sprinkled liberally with words from Latin and Greek for the generation of many new terms. Blend in a healthy dose of Spanish, absorb many of the words of the native Americans, pop it into a baking dish and oh my what a mess. And this is just the abbreviated recipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and ambushes them, then rifles through their pockets for loose grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 It doesn't really do that, though. English grammar hasn't changed significantly in a long time, and owes bits to relatives of Old French and nothing, really, to Latin or Greek, let alone Spanish or any other languages that English acquires words from. But the word-acquiring works in all directions, all languages do that, and indeed English probably provides other languages with vastly more loan-words than it receives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Sullust Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I will agree that Latin is more 'regular' than English, but there are so many endings to learn that I would disqualify it from being labeled simple. If you're looking for a simple language look at something like Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: Necris Omega English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and ambushes them, then rifles through their pockets for loose grammar. Now I don't care who you are, that's funny!!! Good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S It doesn't really do that, though. English grammar hasn't changed significantly in a long time, and owes bits to relatives of Old French and nothing, really, to Latin or Greek, let alone Spanish or any other languages that English acquires words from. But the word-acquiring works in all directions, all languages do that, and indeed English probably provides other languages with vastly more loan-words than it receives. So other languages have a trade imbalance with English? Sweet! That makes us like the China of linguistics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 it is still a good line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.