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Blades, or Regular Avernum


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I just finished a5 and decided that i never actually got the chance to beat any of the original engine games (a1, 2,3, blades of avernum and nethergate-Resurrection) I played a1 a bit and it was cool. I played nethergate though and i really thought the setting of nethergate was much cooler. However what about blades of avernum? Ive heard that a lot of people that couldnt get into a1, found blades to be fun.

 

1-I am looking for a game with a set mission, something like avernum, but not the whole exploring 80,000+ lands. Maybe more linear, what would be good for that?

 

2-If i did get blades, Ive heard that there are numerous editors that allow for new scenarios. How do they work? Are they just expanded on your already made characters or do they affect the endgame. If there is no set level, ill try to do all of them for one party if that is possible. How do the editors work?

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To answer question 2, Blades comes with an editor that allows users to make their own scenarios. Most scenarios have a recommended level for your party so that you will find combat appropriately difficult, but usually you aren't stopped from bringing in an overleveled party if you want. So most scenarios you can play with the same party if you want, but you may find combat to be way too easy sometimes. Blades scenarios definitely tend to be more linear than the Avernum series, and more diverse because they're made by different people. The downside is that they're usually much shorter. I'd recommend it.

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Definitely get BoA. The shorter length of the scenarios is not really a downside in my opinion. It's much harder to get lost. And there's tremendous variety.

 

To clarify how it works, you create a party, just like in any of the Avernum games. Then you can take that party into any scenario. Assuming they survive to the end of it, you can then take them into any other scenario, along with all their gear, and retaining all their training and experience. You can create as many parties as you like, and take them into as many scenarios as you like. It's awesome.

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1. A1-3 aren't as linear as A4-6. A1 in particular can involve a substantial amount of going around and completing whatever quests you encounter. There is a main quest thread (or actually, there are three), but it isn't immediately obvious what's important for those main plot sequences. A2 starts out with a linear mission but opens up. A3 gives you critical quests quite obviously but still involves exploration to figure out where to go to do them.

 

I wouldn't say any involve a whole lot of wandering around lost, but they can involve traveling to new areas without a clear idea of what, exactly, of the things you have on your to-do list will move the game forward.

 

Nethergate is smaller than the Avernums, and it has a very, very definite sequence of major quests complete with instructions on where to go. There's also a world to explore, if you want. The consensus here seems to be that it has the strongest plot and the coolest setting. Definitely give it a try!

 

In general, I'd say you should try demos. They're pretty representative of the games, except for A2's, which can imply a much more linear game than the post-demo area actually is.

 

2. To clarify, Blades of Avernum doesn't modify any existing Avernum games. Instead, you can make scenarios from scratch or play the scenarios made by others. They range in recommended starting party level, size, and linearity. Most of them are very short, and none come close to the length of the main Avernum games. Not all take place in the same setting as Avernum, either.

 

—Alorael, who will reiterate that demos are good. You should also take a look at the Geneforge series. It's generally a bit more linear than the first Avernum trilogy and the setting and plot are much more unique (and driven by the choices you make, if that's of interest).

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1-Cool! Ive been playing boa a bit. Its really cool, although the first adventure-valley of dying things isnt my fav. So you are saying that you can take any group into any bring it into any adventure. Thats pretty epic. Are there any scenarios that you can play or download where there are a lot of assassins/bounty hunters? (like a5)

 

2-By the way, has jeff ever thought of taking this almost flawless idea and putting it into geneforge series. Ive played and beaten g1 and I think if he ever wanted to do anything with geneforge series without actually expanding, he would do something like this but with creations. If he did it, it'd be quite a bit of fun smile

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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S
Jeff has stated explicitly that he will never make another scenario-creator game.


In fairness, he also explicitly stated he'd go insane if he redesigned the Tower of Magi again, and he's redesigned it five, going on six times since then. tongue


On the other hand, BoA almost cost him his business. Returning to Avernum (and a new Tower of Magi) helped save it. tongue
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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S
Jeff has stated explicitly that he will never make another scenario-creator game.


In fairness, he also explicitly stated he'd go insane if he redesigned the Tower of Magi again, and he's redesigned it five, going on six times since then. tongue

The Tower of Magi comment was an offhand remark. The actual explicit statement you pulled that from was that he would never make an Exile 4. And, well, he didn't.

Jeff doesn't seem to go back on his nevers.
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Originally Posted By: Dantius
Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S
Jeff has stated explicitly that he will never make another scenario-creator game.


In fairness, he also explicitly stated he'd go insane if he redesigned the Tower of Magi again, and he's redesigned it five, going on six times since then. tongue

You'll notice that lately Jeff's been destroying the Tower of Magi.

There is as big a market for Blades and more work is involved in bug catching. Just look at all the unresolved ones in BoA.
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Originally Posted By: Death Knight
1-Cool! Ive been playing boa a bit. Its really cool, although the first adventure-valley of dying things isnt my fav.
VoDT and the other scenarios that come with BoA are okay, but they're basically there more or less to show you some of the simpler things you can do with the editor.

Quote:
So you are saying that you can take any group into any bring it into any adventure. Thats pretty epic.
As long as it's a BoA party, you can bring it into just about any BoA scenario. And yes, it is, as you say, epic.

Quote:
Are there any scenarios that you can play or download where there are a lot of assassins/bounty hunters? (like a5)
Probably; check the links on the BoA forum page. Just keep in mind that you can't play any scenarios (except VoDT) unless you have a registered copy of BoA.
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My understanding is that the amount of work to get a scenario editor in working condition is greater, there are more bugs that don't get caught because beta testing doesn't involve testing all the possible scripting that will eventually get used, and in the end fewer people pay for it. It's less money for more time.

 

—Alorael, who knows there are people who would love to get Blades of Geneforge. He just doesn't think there are enough people. And in a way it's always seemed odd to him: with the heavy use of scripting it seems like the only thing really necessary is a reasonable interface for creating town layout and a map, and both seem like the sort of thing Jeff himself might make to facilitate his own work.

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Beta testers? Everyone around here for any length of time knows that the documentation for Spiderweb games is always full of lies.

 

—Alorael, who now recalls Jeff saying that the biggest problem was getting the documentation into useful shape. (He'd also bet that Jeff didn't use something like the BoE editor to make E3. There are too many weird discrepancies and bugs for it not to have been an attempt to give a friendly GUI to what was a hideous tool only its creator could love, and then only grudgingly.)

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I'm pretty sure Jeff said he wrote an editing program to deal with the maps, etc even for Exile 1, but made massive changes to turn those into the BoE Editor.

 

Original Nethergate has enough things hardcoded that it clearly didn't use BoA -- but it could well have been a prototype, given the engine heritage. A1-3 I'm not sure about. G1-5, A4-6, and Avadon all pretty clearly use the same script format as BoA.

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The thing is, making scenarios for BoA turns out to be pretty hard to do, even with the editor. If the editor were easier to use, BoA probably would have sold better. Though Niemand and others have put in a huge amount of work improving it, the fact remains that you have to learn scripting in order to produce a decent scenario. That puts a limit on the number of people who are willing to try, and then further narrows that field to those who can master it.

 

Having said that, there are enough scenarios already in existence to make it worth buying BoA just to play, even if you never plan to try your hand at designing. But maybe it's too retro now, and that window has passed.

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