Tenderfoot Thahd steelytan Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sure it's been covered before here, but I just have to say that I now understand why some of the old Avernum fans were complaining about A4. A1 is just plain cool. Bigger, more varied world--cool Lots of secret doors--cool Light doesn't work in some areas--cool Spell Points all drained before Adze-Hakaai--cool Creatures you can't just mindlessly target and blow to bits (black shades and guardians)--cool Walking on Lava--cool Dumbfounding--cool Random arrangement of party at beginning of combat--cool Dungeon puzzles (teleporters, wheels, runes)--cool Goblin puzzle ("pierce them both")--way cool Bailisks that ACTUALLY TURN YOU TO STONE--cool Dykes--cool I miss anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 A4 uses the Geneforge engine but it lacks the thing that really makes the Geneforge series come alive, the monsters you conjure and command. A4 is neither here nor there, it falls between two stools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 In fact Avernum 4 just steals some of its creatures from geneforge, the hell hound looks like a roamer. I swear i saw a Artila summoned by a priest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The earliest Mac versions of Avernum 4 used clawbugs for chitrachs. Mage types use Shapers, warriors are guardians, and most of the other graphics are recycled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'm sure all of this is the case, but A4 was my first Spiderweb game and I love it to death. I played through it at least 3-4 times. I know that if you have played A3, A4 can seem repetitive and predictable, but if you are new to the series you are like WHOA WHO IS THIS RENTAR GUY I MUST STOP HIS VERY ORIGINAL AND EVIL PLOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: madrigan WHOA WHO IS THIS RENTAR GUY I MUST STOP HIS VERY ORIGINAL AND EVIL PLOT. chick/gal/woman/femme/female not guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Curse rentar. We get his crystal souls back and he tries and gets rid of the surface. I mean why start with a land thats barely populated? Why not kill where the head of the empire is? isnt it on a much more populated contanent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 It's already pretty ridiculous that Rentar was able to unleash 6 different plagues over an entire continent given her limited amount of resources. It'd be even more ridiculous if she tried to do it in a more densely populated area where she'd have fewer secret spots to work in and a lot more soldiers around to hunt her and her plagues down. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Yes but she wouldn't be tracked down. May I remind you that the vahnatai are miles and miles under exile? And that exile is miles and miles below Upper exile? and besides the capital of the empire would have to come valorim to even be over exile. So even if the plaugues did get killed out on the main empire contanent (witch is not likely unless they send army after army agaisnt the alien beasts) They wont get to rentar, unless they find the lower vahnatai lands. For the first part of your statement of Rentar having the resources, There are MANY MANY vahnatai coming out of hybernation, and who knows how many cave systems they are in without knowing? So she would have the resources of many crystals, many vahnatai mages, and many soul crystals. Whew thats the longest most informational post i ever made! post# 291 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 But keep in mind that Rentar-Ihrno isn't operating out of her old home in Egli. The vahnatai following Rentar are all in the vahnatai lands under Tinraya, presumably because even Rentar-Ihrno can't manage to destroy the surface without a relatively nearby base of operations. Your party doesn't hunt her down in the vahnatai homeland, they hunt her down in what seems to be a relatively new settlement. It's also fairly clear that while a sizable portion of her clan follows her, not all of them do, and many vahnatai aren't part of the Olgai clan at all. Rentar uses all the resources she has at her disposal, and while does substantial damage to Valorim, Valorim is the wild frontier of the Empire. It doesn't have the bulk of the Empire's martial or magical forces within it. —Alorael, who can't rule out that Rentar lashed out at the closest part of the Empire, which was Valorim. Still, her strike isn't even all that effective there. The capitals of the provinces are damaged, but they survive. It's only backwaters that are completely destroyed. Trying the same thing against a more densely settled and heavily protected area, especially one without wilderness in which to hide monster factories, would be a losing proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Which is, all told, something I quite like about Jeff's games, especially in comparison to Japanese RPGs. The stakes are always high, there's war and strife, thousand or even millions of lives are on the line, but it's not always about The End Of The World. The presence of so many stories about armageddon devalues the concept, at least to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Well i guess i am defeated. I guess if a misfit group of avernums can kill some slims some roaches some giants some trogs and some alien biest, then i guess the bulk of the empire with the most skilled warriers and mages can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Were we told the names of the other continents, or do we only know Valorim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Earth Empires Originally Posted By: madrigan WHOA WHO IS THIS RENTAR GUY I MUST STOP HIS VERY ORIGINAL AND EVIL PLOT. chick/gal/woman/femme/female not guy. Yeah but when you are first contacted by her, as I recall, you have no idea who or what she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Actually, i think i do know the name of the empires old home continent before the capital got moved some where else. Let me dig it up and ill tell you in a few seconds. _________________________________________________________ Ok i got it, its called pralgad, heres all its information http://webspace.webring.com/people/qf/falcatta/maps/Pralgad.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: madrigan Yeah but when you are first contacted by her, as I recall, you have no idea who or what she is. could be unless some1 mentions Rentar being she. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 hmm. Nope. Dont think any one does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Erasmus Were we told the names of the other continents, or do we only know Valorim? Aizo, Pralgad, and Vantanas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Yes. It says that on the site i linked a while ago... THE LANDS OF THE EMPIRE The Empire, blessed power over us all, controls the four known continents. Aizo, the oldest, is the birthplace of the Empire, although the ruling seat is now on the continent of Pralgad. Vantanas is the smallest continent, but in many ways the richest, with its hot climate, fascinating fauna, and rich stores of gold and diamonds. And finally, there is the recently settled Valorim, which has a wild (though controlled) spirit. From: Exile, ruined world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's also in A3, in case anyone is worried about loss of canon information between series. —Alorael, who thinks that's a reasonable fear. There were several inexplicable renamings between series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Most of the renamings were quasi-explicable and involved switching between the first and last names of a real person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Say what? what got renamed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The one that springs to mind is Jordan being renamed Bojar, probably after the real person E. Jordan Bojar. —Alorael, who can't actually remember any others. He thought there were more, but he could be mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd steelytan Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: madrigan I'm sure all of this is the case, but A4 was my first Spiderweb game and I love it to death. I played through it at least 3-4 times. I know that if you have played A3, A4 can seem repetitive and predictable, but if you are new to the series you are like WHOA WHO IS THIS RENTAR GUY I MUST STOP HIS VERY ORIGINAL AND EVIL PLOT. Yeah, I loved A4 too, and I felt much the way you did about the plot. I was hooked so much that I slept 4 hours and consumed all of 2 glasses of water (no food) in the first 24 hours after downloading the game. And that just got me most of the way through the demo area. Thinking about this topic after my post, I found myself feeling nostalgic for that plot. But even though A1 isn't as smooth, even though the plot's a bit thin, it has this coolness factor that A4 doesn't have. Kind of like LPs versus CDs. So I'm looking forward to A2 and A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Yes. lots of them,i think Jordan was the most noticable, if there was more. I dont think there was any gender changes at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Unless you count the dragons. Originally Posted By: steelytan A1 is just plain cool. QFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 There was a gender change in with the dragons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Other name changes off the top of my head: Carol Hamer has appeared as Carol ("of the Hamer clan"), and as Hamer. The clearance archivist at the Castle was Gilda and Radner in X2 (forget which was which). Edit: dragon gender changes -- I love linking to this page: http://encyclopedia.ermarian.net/wiki/Talk:Dragons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 To be fair, the confusion is excusable. Dragon sexing must be one of the most dangerous professions ever invented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: Slartucker The clearance archivist at the Castle was Gilda and Radner in X2 (forget which was which). Dikiyoba thinks that Radner is the name used in A2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 ...I dont think the dragons would let you get that close, it would be better to ask them for they can talk human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 But dragons are notorious liars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I Will Want To Have Sexed Your Dragon...wasn't that the name of some band? There was definitely an I Will Want to Have Sexed Your [noun]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Why the hell would they lie about theyre genders? that just makes absolutly no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 A female dragon might not want anyone searching her lair for eggs. A dragon of either sex might have gender identity issues that are none of your business, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Urthdigger Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Maybe they're one of those lizards that change their sex due to age or environmental circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 It's pretty rare that the dragons refer to their own gender, so it's not an issue of them lying. Pronouns DO appear outside of quotes, which pretty much makes it an issue of the PCs misconstruing things. Which, as mentioned, is understandable. Although why the Exile 2 PCs -- who otherwise seem to be the most competent group of PCs in any SW game -- would assume a brooding dragon is male is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 *sigh* poor motrax. He was a great dragon, let his death be known throughout spiderweb software! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Avernum 4,5,6 etc. feel very small compared to avernum3 and i guess 1 and 2 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 A1 - A3 were mature products, their story line having been developed from the Exile series. The game engine which started in A1 and matured in A3 was powerful enough an flexible enough to spawn a new generation of games designed and built by the player community (a la Blades of Exile). When I first started playing A4, the 'flat' environment seemed primitive compared to the endless things you could do with stairways and portals in A3 and BoA. No boats, no horses in A4. The one thing A4 does bring to the table is Jeff's ability to write a RPG that is more than just one battle after another. As with all the games he has written, it has a complex story line that is more important than any combat scene. This is what makes the Avernum series (and the Exile's) so re-playable, just as a good book is worth re-reading, or a good movie is worth re-watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The thing that makes A3 so huge is all its options. It has Upper exile and valorim. And valorim is about 5 times the size of exile, maybe more. And then there are the Vahnatai lands where rentar ihrno is. It has Lots and lots of spells. It also has many items you can use, the blessed athame, the demon slayer (Have to get by editor), Orb of thralni, and the returning jewl. The thing that tipped it off over the edge is the ever rare Xian items. And what does A4 have? Sure the teleportation between towns is cool. And the portals too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Editor is not the only way to get demonslayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Harehunter A1 - A3 were mature products, their story line having been developed from the Exile series. The game engine which started in Nethergate and matured in A3 was powerful enough an flexible enough to spawn a new generation of games designed and built by the player community (a la Blades of Exile). FYT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: Harehunter The one thing A4 does bring to the table is Jeff's ability to write a RPG that is more than just one battle after another. As with all the games he has written, it has a complex story line that is more important than any combat scene. This is what makes the Avernum series (and the Exile's) so re-playable, just as a good book is worth re-reading, or a good movie is worth re-watching. This is an interesting perspective. Storyline is the thing that A4 is most frequently criticized over, at least among SW fans, due to the predictability of the plot, its similarity to A3, and the relative lifelessness of characters compared to previous games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I agree that A4 has the weakest story line of the series. However, I still would like to credit Jeff for his creativity in this regard. IMO, even the least of his games is superior to all the other bang-bang-shoot-em-ups that flood the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: Harehunter I agree that A4 has the weakest story line of the series. However, I still would like to credit Jeff for his creativity in this regard. IMO, even the least of his games is superior to all the other bang-bang-shoot-em-ups that flood the market. Not really a fair comparison. Spiderweb games are RPGs. There are exceptions, but in general, RPGs focus heavily on story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Right. I think it's fair to say that the writing in Spiderweb games is generally superior to the writing in most other CRPGs. The quality of the storyline, on the other hand, varies significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES Right. I think it's fair to say that the writing in Spiderweb games is generally superior to the writing in most other CRPGs. The quality of the storyline, on the other hand, varies significantly. Isn't the storyline part of the writing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think the distinction here is between writing in a narrower, stylistic sense and writing in the broader sense of authorship, which includes style as well as plotting, character, theme/message, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Xazo-Tak Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The first Avernum trilogy has a better story and gameplay, while second trilogy is just killing things. Also, 1st trilogy has MUCH better load time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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