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A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List


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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 07:09 PM #36 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Originally Posted By: Jeff Vogel
all significant item drops are fixed anyway.
Also note this part.  Unlike in A5, no more random Eyestalks to worry about!  You can confirm this by looking in the defs file -- no enemy is set to drop item 438 randomly.
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waterplant waterplant

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 12:50 PM #37 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Hope you don't mind me pointing out the trainer for lethal blow is in Fort Remote not Eastern Great Cave.
This list is invaluable btw.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:21 PM #38 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

If I'm not mistaken, two trainers train Lethal Blow, and the one in Eastern Great Cave trains it for significantly less money.  I could be misremembering though.
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Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:27 PM #39 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

There is only one trainer for Lethal Blow and it's in Fort Remote.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:32 PM #40 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Guess that's my bad.  Fixed -- thanks Waterplant and Randomizer.
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vstef96 vstef96

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 08:23 AM #41 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Found a error in the list with Anatomy.
You need 4 INT and 8 MELEE WEAPONS or 7 POLE WEAPONS.

EDIT: Error with Blademaster too, though I can't find the right combination to unlock it.
EDIT2: I want to unlock Lethal Blow and I have 7 Blademaster and 5 Anatomy and it won't unlock.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:42 AM #42 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Nope, the wording here is deliberate: "Unlocks after buying 2 Intelligence, 7 Melee or Pole Weapons" -- emphasis on "buying".  Skill points you have because of race or trait bonuses, or equipment bonuses, or that you start out with (2 Int, for example) don't count towards unlocking anything.
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Sade Sade

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:24 AM #43 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

You can land Lethal Blows also using scrolls and wands.

Not sure whether this was already covered within the "ranged weapons" or not.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:22 AM #44 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Whoa, really?  No, scrolls and wands don't count as ranged weapons in Avernum.  Huh.  They do in Geneforge -- I wonder if that's a carry-over.

Can anyone else confirm this?
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Sade Sade

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:52 AM #45 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Well, I'm not anyone else, but...

Blasting Lethal Blow with a Fiery Wand  

Is that enough of a proof?


waterplant waterplant

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:54 AM #46 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Battle Disciplines can be used with wands and scrolls (Well Aimed and Mighty Blow) but I've never noticed a Lethal Blow hit with one.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:27 PM #47 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Thanks for the picture, Sade.  I assume you are using Windows (just in case this is a platform difference, which I would doubt)?

The funny thing is that it won't activate for spells, but it will for scrolls and wands.  Really weird.

I am tempted to double check that other stats don't increase wand damage.  Has anybody checked this?
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Sade Sade

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:57 PM #48 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

I did a little test with the Wand of the Inferno:

20 hits against a group of Mutant Lizards;
40 Lethal Blow skill;
0 Lethal Blows.

It seems that (unsurprisingly) only single-targeted wands and scrolls are included.

Yeah, I am using Windows.

Øther Øther

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:37 PM #49 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

I fairly certain that I had seen my mages get lethal blows with their spells, but maybe it was just with their bows.
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Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:26 PM #50 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

I've gotten lethal blow with a spell, but it's a rare occurance, under 5%.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:43 PM #51 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

No, it's a beta testing occurance that has changed, or so Synergy and I concluded.  I have tested exhaustively and haven't seen a single one.  I challenge you to produce a single lethal blow with a spell with the current version of A6.
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Øther Øther

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:47 PM #52 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Bing!


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15d9bbp&s=5


Scar has 11 lethal blow.


It's kinda weird... I read your post and then I went into the game, and this is the first attack I did. Immidiately, with only 11 lethal blow, I get a lethal blow with fire bolt.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:53 PM #53 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Scientific Progress Goes "Bing"?

Yes, it does.  Well how about that.

Huh.  This bears further testing.  Something else must have been affecting the Lethal Blow chances when Synergy and I tested.
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Lilith Lilith

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 03:25 PM #54 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Is it possible that you can only get a Lethal Blow with a spell if you're attacking a friendly target? It seems implausible, but it's just the sort of cockamamie coding that Jeff might have done.

Øther Øther

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 03:42 PM #55 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

No it is not!
"Happily, in intervening years, adventurer training has improved dramatically, so you no longer have to pay me to tell you that the sword you're holding is a sword."

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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:21 PM #56 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Hmm.  So here's what we know.
- It seems to be possible to get lethal blows with any targeted attack that deals damage.
- It does not seem possible with AoE attacks.
- Lethal Blow skill affects chance to land a lethal blow, but not the damage increase.
- Something can create a situation such that lethal blows will occur with melee attacks, but not single target magic attacks by the same PC against the same enemy.
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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:36 PM #57 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

I bet Chuck Norris would land a lethal blow with anything.
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Sade Sade

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 09:27 AM #58 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Skills affecting Fiery Wand Damage

x +y means training the skill in question y levels higher than its base level (2 for Dex and Int, 0 for everything else). Decimal number right after "x +y" means the arithmetic mean of 20 hits with a Fiery Wand. Percentage in the end means the increase (or decrease) compared to base damage.

Petitioners around CFD were used as the test subjects.

Base damage, human, no traits, no training: 21.7, range 17-26

Dexterity +10: 22.05, range 16-28, + 1.61%, Dexterity +20: 22.15, range 15-27, + 2.07%

Intelligence +10: 21.1, range 16-28, - 2.76%, Intelligence +20: 21.85, range 14-29, + 0.69%

Mage Spells +10: 21.85, range 17-26, + 0.69%, Mage Spells +20: 22.8, range 16-29, + 5.07%

Priest Spells +10: 21.55, range 14-27, - 0.69%, Priest Spells +20: 21.0, range 15-28, - 3.23%

Spellcraft +10: 21.55, range 17-28, - 0.69%, Spellcraft +20: 22.6, range 15-29, + 4.15%

Luck +10: 22.05, range 15-28, + 1.61%, Luck +20: 22.75, range 16-30, + 4.84%

Anatomy +10: 22.6, range 18-29, + 4.15%, Anatomy +20: 22.25, range 16-27, + 2.53%

Lethal Blow +10: 24.1, range 16-31, + 11.06%, Lethal Blow +20: 25.3, range 19-35, + 16.59%

Every above skill +40: 27.7, range 20-32, + 27.65%

Every above skill except Lethal Blow +40: 23.55, range 18-30, + 8.53%

Conclusions:

Lethal Blow is clearly the best skill for increasing the damage done by wands(and scrolls).

Mage Spells, Spellcraft, Luck and Anatomy also seem to increase the damage, although rather marginally.

It's definitely not worth it to train anything only
to increase wand/scroll damage.

In practice, all of these percentages (expect probably Lethal Blow's) are so small that I don't think there's any reason to care about any of this stuff.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 11:48 AM #59 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

The data you have absolutely does not support the conclusion that any of these skills increase its damage, aside from Lethal Blow.  (The data on LB seems to be in accordance with my estimate of 40% increased damage, though its hard to know since you didn't separate data for LB activations and regular hits.)

Forget any fancy statistical analysis -- obviously, increasing Intelligence isn't going to lower the damage, so we can automatically discount any variation of less than 3% as statistical noise -- which makes a lot of sense given that the range of our control data is nearly 50% of its own mean!

The only part that makes me wonder is the 8.5% increase from raising all skills except LB to 40, since that is higher than any other increase (aside from those for LB).  The most likely explanation is, I would think, that Anatomy is impacting it, although the 20 Anatomy data looks a little odd then.
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"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Sade Sade

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:01 PM #60 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Well, yeah, I wasn't trying to do too serious research, just proving that no other skill than Lethal Blow increases the damage enough to affect the practical gameplay.

You know, 8.5% damage increase, even if it would exist, is a pretty pathetic outcome for training 40 Anatomy (or anything else).

GIFTCockroach GIFTCockroach

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:57 AM #61 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Melee/Pole/Bows should still give +5% to hit, according to my tests.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 06:16 AM #62 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

GIFTC -- if that's in response to the original post, yep, that's part of what "Attack Bonus" grants.
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GIFTCockroach GIFTCockroach

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 06:19 AM #63 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Oh OK, I guess I wasn't sure what "Attack Bonus" meant.
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Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 06:38 AM #64 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

I should probably clarify that -- thanks for pointing that out!
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Small Cryoa Small Cryoa

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 02:24 PM #65 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
LUCK (Cost: 2 -- No Trainers) (NB: before v1.01, was cost: 4)
+2% to Armor and All Resistances (NB: before v1.01, was +1%)
+2% to Evasion (10-cap)
+2% to Hit Rate for all attacks
I just tested and luck has a 10 skill cap for the resistance and armor too

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:03 PM #66 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Wow, you're right.  Fascinating, especially because Hardiness and Resistance do -not- have said 10-cap (I just checked).  Thanks for the correction!
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So Much Killing So Much Killing

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:55 PM #67 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

Because I am a crazy person, I made a chart of how all of these skills interact. The lines connecting them turn vertical at the number of levels you have to buy (indicated by the numbers at the top) to unlock the downstream trait. The circles mean "or" and the triangles and diamond are "and" gates. An asterisk next to the skill name means it has a trainer somewhere. On the left are basic skills, the things in the center and on the right can be unlocked. The stuff in the upper right doesn't unlock anything.

Aside from being a nice graphic illustration of the almost absurd complexity of all these skills, the chart is somewhat useful as a reference of what to train and when.

Errors and omissions are undoubtedly someone else's fault.

Enjoy.
  
Originally Posted By: Lilith
[...]but the point is that it's really easy to run out of demon's bile.

Triumph Triumph

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:58 PM #68 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

WOW.  That's amazing.  Nice work!

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Lilith Lilith

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 04:53 PM #69 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

wow so did you uh use like inkscape for that or what

So Much Killing So Much Killing

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:44 PM #70 A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

PowerPoint!

Let me know if you're ever giving a public lecture on Avernum 6, and I'll send you the ppt file.
Originally Posted By: Lilith
[...]but the point is that it's really easy to run out of demon's bile.




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