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Huey, Dewey, and QE

A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List

93 posts in this topic

No, it's a beta testing occurance that has changed, or so Synergy and I concluded. I have tested exhaustively and haven't seen a single one. I challenge you to produce a single lethal blow with a spell with the current version of A6.

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Bing!

 

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15d9bbp&s=5

 

 

Scar has 11 lethal blow.

 

 

It's kinda weird... I read your post and then I went into the game, and this is the first attack I did. Immidiately, with only 11 lethal blow, I get a lethal blow with fire bolt.

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Scientific Progress Goes "Bing"?

 

Yes, it does. Well how about that.

 

Huh. This bears further testing. Something else must have been affecting the Lethal Blow chances when Synergy and I tested.

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Is it possible that you can only get a Lethal Blow with a spell if you're attacking a friendly target? It seems implausible, but it's just the sort of cockamamie coding that Jeff might have done.

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Hmm. So here's what we know.

- It seems to be possible to get lethal blows with any targeted attack that deals damage.

- It does not seem possible with AoE attacks.

- Lethal Blow skill affects chance to land a lethal blow, but not the damage increase.

- Something can create a situation such that lethal blows will occur with melee attacks, but not single target magic attacks by the same PC against the same enemy.

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Skills affecting Fiery Wand Damage

 

x +y means training the skill in question y levels higher than its base level (2 for Dex and Int, 0 for everything else). Decimal number right after "x +y" means the arithmetic mean of 20 hits with a Fiery Wand. Percentage in the end means the increase (or decrease) compared to base damage.

 

Petitioners around CFD were used as the test subjects.

 

Base damage, human, no traits, no training: 21.7, range 17-26

 

Dexterity +10: 22.05, range 16-28, + 1.61%, Dexterity +20: 22.15, range 15-27, + 2.07%

 

Intelligence +10: 21.1, range 16-28, - 2.76%, Intelligence +20: 21.85, range 14-29, + 0.69%

 

Mage Spells +10: 21.85, range 17-26, + 0.69%, Mage Spells +20: 22.8, range 16-29, + 5.07%

 

Priest Spells +10: 21.55, range 14-27, - 0.69%, Priest Spells +20: 21.0, range 15-28, - 3.23%

 

Spellcraft +10: 21.55, range 17-28, - 0.69%, Spellcraft +20: 22.6, range 15-29, + 4.15%

 

Luck +10: 22.05, range 15-28, + 1.61%, Luck +20: 22.75, range 16-30, + 4.84%

 

Anatomy +10: 22.6, range 18-29, + 4.15%, Anatomy +20: 22.25, range 16-27, + 2.53%

 

Lethal Blow +10: 24.1, range 16-31, + 11.06%, Lethal Blow +20: 25.3, range 19-35, + 16.59%

 

Every above skill +40: 27.7, range 20-32, + 27.65%

 

Every above skill except Lethal Blow +40: 23.55, range 18-30, + 8.53%

 

Conclusions:

 

Lethal Blow is clearly the best skill for increasing the damage done by wands(and scrolls).

 

Mage Spells, Spellcraft, Luck and Anatomy also seem to increase the damage, although rather marginally.

 

It's definitely not worth it to train anything only

to increase wand/scroll damage.

 

In practice, all of these percentages (expect probably Lethal Blow's) are so small that I don't think there's any reason to care about any of this stuff.

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The data you have absolutely does not support the conclusion that any of these skills increase its damage, aside from Lethal Blow. (The data on LB seems to be in accordance with my estimate of 40% increased damage, though its hard to know since you didn't separate data for LB activations and regular hits.)

 

Forget any fancy statistical analysis -- obviously, increasing Intelligence isn't going to lower the damage, so we can automatically discount any variation of less than 3% as statistical noise -- which makes a lot of sense given that the range of our control data is nearly 50% of its own mean!

 

The only part that makes me wonder is the 8.5% increase from raising all skills except LB to 40, since that is higher than any other increase (aside from those for LB). The most likely explanation is, I would think, that Anatomy is impacting it, although the 20 Anatomy data looks a little odd then.

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Well, yeah, I wasn't trying to do too serious research, just proving that no other skill than Lethal Blow increases the damage enough to affect the practical gameplay.

 

You know, 8.5% damage increase, even if it would exist, is a pretty pathetic outcome for training 40 Anatomy (or anything else).

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GIFTC -- if that's in response to the original post, yep, that's part of what "Attack Bonus" grants.

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Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES
LUCK (Cost: 2 -- No Trainers) (NB: before v1.01, was cost: 4)
+2% to Armor and All Resistances (NB: before v1.01, was +1%)
+2% to Evasion (10-cap)
+2% to Hit Rate for all attacks

I just tested and luck has a 10 skill cap for the resistance and armor too

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Wow, you're right. Fascinating, especially because Hardiness and Resistance do -not- have said 10-cap (I just checked). Thanks for the correction!

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Because I am a crazy person, I made a chart of how all of these skills interact. The lines connecting them turn vertical at the number of levels you have to buy (indicated by the numbers at the top) to unlock the downstream trait. The circles mean "or" and the triangles and diamond are "and" gates. An asterisk next to the skill name means it has a trainer somewhere. On the left are basic skills, the things in the center and on the right can be unlocked. The stuff in the upper right doesn't unlock anything.

 

Aside from being a nice graphic illustration of the almost absurd complexity of all these skills, the chart is somewhat useful as a reference of what to train and when.

 

Errors and omissions are undoubtedly someone else's fault.

 

Enjoy.

2uyj6s8.jpg

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wow so did you uh use like inkscape for that or what

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PowerPoint!

 

Let me know if you're ever giving a public lecture on Avernum 6, and I'll send you the ppt file.

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In the game is states that Arcane lore also gives a chances to resist mental status effects. Other than that...great job!

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Can you confirm whether or not Arcane Lore actually increases displayed Mental Resistance, and by how much? If so, I should add that.

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I can think 2 places to test that on field, on crypt near Castle and later when fighting against that eyebeast.

 

Tested with endgame char (fighter ET DW Nephil 2pts Int and 5pts AL) via editor, MR before 73% and after maxing AL it was 85%.

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What I really need is to see a character with 0% MR, and how much their displayed MR is with 1 AL, 2, and so on. Also, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 to see if the 10-cap exists.

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Human custom no traits 6% MR 2 pts at Str, Dex, Int and End no items.

 

Every AL-point gives 2 % MR except every 9th AL-point gives only 1%.

 

Maxed AL (40) gives 76% MR (+6% at start makes it 82%).

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Thanks.

 

Based on your numbers, 40 AL does not give 76%, it gives 80% -- you have to remember that different pieces of resistance are multiplied together, not added. That explains the every 9th point occurance too, it is just 2% per point, dealing with the 6% from 2 Int.

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Originally Posted By: mauvebutterfly
As in some of Jeff's previous games, do you need to visit the trainers before spending skill points on the skill?

It makes more sense if you want to save skill points to wait for some trainers. Fighters are better off getting their main combat skills, but for arcane and nature lore it's better to wait.

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Thanks Randomizer.

Yeah, I figured that some skills are hard to do without early on. This makes it slightly harder to spend skill points as efficiently as possible, but in all honesty I'm disinclined to do that anyway.

 

Not sure why I need to play these games through on torment without thinking about my character builds too much.

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Honestly, if you're a good enough tactician to play on Torment, you're good enough to not have to worry about a handful of skill points that you'll save by holding off on Arcane Lore. While trainers are handy, I'm not obsessive about using them all.

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On the other hand, if you're a good enough tactician to play on Torment, you're good enough to not have to worry about a handful of skills that you'll be behind in for half the game if you hold off on Arcane Lore or whatever. While trainers are unnecessary, so are most skills.

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I find that having access to a wider range of spells earlier is more of a qualitative improvement than having a few more skill points that are ultimately just going to be boosting damage output by a very slight amount.

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Awesome list!! (lists)

 

Anyway, why am I paying the double of the price in the list for training?

 

ex. dual wielding in for remote 1700 instead of 850 stated here???

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Originally Posted By: nonoson
Awesome list!! (lists)

Anyway, why am I paying the double of the price in the list for training?

ex. dual wielding in for remote 1700 instead of 850 stated here???


The cost quoted is not the raw cost, but the cost per skill point that you would have had to spend to raise the skill yourself. The idea is that that gives you the best measure of which trainers are the best value, since buying a 5-skill-point-cost skill for 1000 gold is better value than buying a 2-skill-point-cost skill for 800 gold.

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hmm.. I don't think I get it.

 

If we take anatomy as example. In the list from the original post it says:

ANATOMY (Cost: 4 -- Train: 175, 193, 168 per sp @ Eastern Great Cave)

 

I just checked and I pay 700 coins for a skillpoint!! Aren't the numbers 175, 193, 168 reffering to the increasing price as you train the skill at the trainer in the eastern great cave?

 

thx..

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Originally Posted By: nonoson
hmm.. I don't think I get it.

If we take anatomy as example. In the list from the original post it says:
ANATOMY (Cost: 4 -- Train: 175, 193, 168 per sp @ Eastern Great Cave)

I just checked and I pay 700 coins for a skillpoint!! Aren't the numbers 175, 193, 168 reffering to the increasing price as you train the skill at the trainer in the eastern great cave?

thx..


You're misunderstanding what skill points mean. Skill points are the things you use to raise your skills when you level up, not the skills themselves.

Your first point of Anatomy would cost 4 skill points if you were raising it without a trainer. It would cost 700 gold at the trainer. 700/4 = 175 gold per skill point.

Your second point of Anatomy would also cost 4 skill points to raise yourself. It would cost 770 gold at the trainer. 770/4 = 192.5 gold per skill point (rounded up to 193).

Your third point of Anatomy would cost 5 skill points to raise by yourself, because skill costs increase once every 2 ranks. It would cost 840 gold at a trainer. 840/5 = 168 gold per skill point.

Make sense now?

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Now I get it! EVEN BETTER!! wow the list is just awesome smile

 

Thank you so much taking the time to explain it to a dude from Denmark who's english most of the time is adeqaute - but not always.

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I'm starting up A6 again after a couple years, and want to make sure: the in-game tooltips indicate Dexterity "Helps you... hit more often with melee and missile weapons." I assume this is a typo on Jeff's part, and it's really Strength that boosts melee to-hit (as listed in the OP, and as is the case in every other Spiderweb game I'm aware of), but could somebody please confirm?

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Strength for melee and Dexterity for missiles.

 

Jeff just cuts and pastes old and outdated information into the tool tips.

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Thanks, Randomizer - I know Spiderweb tooltips and game manuals aren't too reliable (hence Strategy Central), but just wanted to be sure.

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"Outdated" is understating it, if anything. I think the last time Dexterity affected melee accuracy in a Spiderweb game was back in the Exile series.

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