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A6 - Comprehensive Skill Effect List


Slarti

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Hmm. So here's what we know.

- It seems to be possible to get lethal blows with any targeted attack that deals damage.

- It does not seem possible with AoE attacks.

- Lethal Blow skill affects chance to land a lethal blow, but not the damage increase.

- Something can create a situation such that lethal blows will occur with melee attacks, but not single target magic attacks by the same PC against the same enemy.

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Skills affecting Fiery Wand Damage

 

x +y means training the skill in question y levels higher than its base level (2 for Dex and Int, 0 for everything else). Decimal number right after "x +y" means the arithmetic mean of 20 hits with a Fiery Wand. Percentage in the end means the increase (or decrease) compared to base damage.

 

Petitioners around CFD were used as the test subjects.

 

Base damage, human, no traits, no training: 21.7, range 17-26

 

Dexterity +10: 22.05, range 16-28, + 1.61%, Dexterity +20: 22.15, range 15-27, + 2.07%

 

Intelligence +10: 21.1, range 16-28, - 2.76%, Intelligence +20: 21.85, range 14-29, + 0.69%

 

Mage Spells +10: 21.85, range 17-26, + 0.69%, Mage Spells +20: 22.8, range 16-29, + 5.07%

 

Priest Spells +10: 21.55, range 14-27, - 0.69%, Priest Spells +20: 21.0, range 15-28, - 3.23%

 

Spellcraft +10: 21.55, range 17-28, - 0.69%, Spellcraft +20: 22.6, range 15-29, + 4.15%

 

Luck +10: 22.05, range 15-28, + 1.61%, Luck +20: 22.75, range 16-30, + 4.84%

 

Anatomy +10: 22.6, range 18-29, + 4.15%, Anatomy +20: 22.25, range 16-27, + 2.53%

 

Lethal Blow +10: 24.1, range 16-31, + 11.06%, Lethal Blow +20: 25.3, range 19-35, + 16.59%

 

Every above skill +40: 27.7, range 20-32, + 27.65%

 

Every above skill except Lethal Blow +40: 23.55, range 18-30, + 8.53%

 

Conclusions:

 

Lethal Blow is clearly the best skill for increasing the damage done by wands(and scrolls).

 

Mage Spells, Spellcraft, Luck and Anatomy also seem to increase the damage, although rather marginally.

 

It's definitely not worth it to train anything only

to increase wand/scroll damage.

 

In practice, all of these percentages (expect probably Lethal Blow's) are so small that I don't think there's any reason to care about any of this stuff.

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The data you have absolutely does not support the conclusion that any of these skills increase its damage, aside from Lethal Blow. (The data on LB seems to be in accordance with my estimate of 40% increased damage, though its hard to know since you didn't separate data for LB activations and regular hits.)

 

Forget any fancy statistical analysis -- obviously, increasing Intelligence isn't going to lower the damage, so we can automatically discount any variation of less than 3% as statistical noise -- which makes a lot of sense given that the range of our control data is nearly 50% of its own mean!

 

The only part that makes me wonder is the 8.5% increase from raising all skills except LB to 40, since that is higher than any other increase (aside from those for LB). The most likely explanation is, I would think, that Anatomy is impacting it, although the 20 Anatomy data looks a little odd then.

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Well, yeah, I wasn't trying to do too serious research, just proving that no other skill than Lethal Blow increases the damage enough to affect the practical gameplay.

 

You know, 8.5% damage increase, even if it would exist, is a pretty pathetic outcome for training 40 Anatomy (or anything else).

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Because I am a crazy person, I made a chart of how all of these skills interact. The lines connecting them turn vertical at the number of levels you have to buy (indicated by the numbers at the top) to unlock the downstream trait. The circles mean "or" and the triangles and diamond are "and" gates. An asterisk next to the skill name means it has a trainer somewhere. On the left are basic skills, the things in the center and on the right can be unlocked. The stuff in the upper right doesn't unlock anything.

 

Aside from being a nice graphic illustration of the almost absurd complexity of all these skills, the chart is somewhat useful as a reference of what to train and when.

 

Errors and omissions are undoubtedly someone else's fault.

 

Enjoy.

2uyj6s8.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

Thanks.

 

Based on your numbers, 40 AL does not give 76%, it gives 80% -- you have to remember that different pieces of resistance are multiplied together, not added. That explains the every 9th point occurance too, it is just 2% per point, dealing with the 6% from 2 Int.

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Originally Posted By: mauvebutterfly
As in some of Jeff's previous games, do you need to visit the trainers before spending skill points on the skill?

It makes more sense if you want to save skill points to wait for some trainers. Fighters are better off getting their main combat skills, but for arcane and nature lore it's better to wait.
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Thanks Randomizer.

Yeah, I figured that some skills are hard to do without early on. This makes it slightly harder to spend skill points as efficiently as possible, but in all honesty I'm disinclined to do that anyway.

 

Not sure why I need to play these games through on torment without thinking about my character builds too much.

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On the other hand, if you're a good enough tactician to play on Torment, you're good enough to not have to worry about a handful of skills that you'll be behind in for half the game if you hold off on Arcane Lore or whatever. While trainers are unnecessary, so are most skills.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Originally Posted By: nonoson
Awesome list!! (lists)

Anyway, why am I paying the double of the price in the list for training?

ex. dual wielding in for remote 1700 instead of 850 stated here???


The cost quoted is not the raw cost, but the cost per skill point that you would have had to spend to raise the skill yourself. The idea is that that gives you the best measure of which trainers are the best value, since buying a 5-skill-point-cost skill for 1000 gold is better value than buying a 2-skill-point-cost skill for 800 gold.
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hmm.. I don't think I get it.

 

If we take anatomy as example. In the list from the original post it says:

ANATOMY (Cost: 4 -- Train: 175, 193, 168 per sp @ Eastern Great Cave)

 

I just checked and I pay 700 coins for a skillpoint!! Aren't the numbers 175, 193, 168 reffering to the increasing price as you train the skill at the trainer in the eastern great cave?

 

thx..

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Originally Posted By: nonoson
hmm.. I don't think I get it.

If we take anatomy as example. In the list from the original post it says:
ANATOMY (Cost: 4 -- Train: 175, 193, 168 per sp @ Eastern Great Cave)

I just checked and I pay 700 coins for a skillpoint!! Aren't the numbers 175, 193, 168 reffering to the increasing price as you train the skill at the trainer in the eastern great cave?

thx..


You're misunderstanding what skill points mean. Skill points are the things you use to raise your skills when you level up, not the skills themselves.

Your first point of Anatomy would cost 4 skill points if you were raising it without a trainer. It would cost 700 gold at the trainer. 700/4 = 175 gold per skill point.

Your second point of Anatomy would also cost 4 skill points to raise yourself. It would cost 770 gold at the trainer. 770/4 = 192.5 gold per skill point (rounded up to 193).

Your third point of Anatomy would cost 5 skill points to raise by yourself, because skill costs increase once every 2 ranks. It would cost 840 gold at a trainer. 840/5 = 168 gold per skill point.

Make sense now?
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  • 3 years later...

I'm starting up A6 again after a couple years, and want to make sure: the in-game tooltips indicate Dexterity "Helps you... hit more often with melee and missile weapons." I assume this is a typo on Jeff's part, and it's really Strength that boosts melee to-hit (as listed in the OP, and as is the case in every other Spiderweb game I'm aware of), but could somebody please confirm?

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