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A6 - Changes from the earlier games


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Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:01 AM #36 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Also, what exactly determines your position in the turn order in this game? I have a slith and a nephil with seemingly the same or higher stats in everything relevant (dex, quick action, gymnastics) but the one I think should be gong first (Slith) is slower.

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:26 AM #37 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

You're looking at the right stats.  What are their actual stats in those three skills?  Also, are they the same level?
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Jerakeen Jerakeen

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 07:05 PM #38 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

View PostXander77, on 08 September 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

Question: I'm coming into this from the remakes (Avernum: Subtitle) where you could only buy two levels of spell training (or 1 if you already knew the spell at character creation) + 1 level from a book. Here you can buy 3 levels AND one from a book (though not for all spells, apparently). Do they all stack, or does the book level replace one of the training levels?
They all stack. You can get some spells much higher than level 3 in A6, but there's seldom much point in doing so. Unlike in the remakes, there are no new effects at the higher levels, just an incremental increase in power. You can get the same effect for all spells by raising your spellcasting skills. So except in the case of relatively inexpensive spells that you use often, it's a waste of money that you could otherwise use to train skills.

Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 12:32 AM #39 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

View PostJerakeen, on 08 September 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

They all stack. You can get some spells much higher than level 3 in A6, but there's seldom much point in doing so. Unlike in the remakes, there are no new effects at the higher levels, just an incremental increase in power. You can get the same effect for all spells by raising your spellcasting skills. So except in the case of relatively inexpensive spells that you use often, it's a waste of money that you could otherwise use to train skills.
Huh. Does that include barrier dispell? Which level should I get that to if not?

View PostSlartibus, on 08 September 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

You're looking at the right stats.  What are their actual stats in those three skills?  Also, are they the same level?
Ah. No, the nephil is way ahead in levels. What is the formula, exactly?

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 03:14 AM #40 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

We don't know the exact formula, but if you provide their actual stats, it would be easy to see if there are other discrepancies.  I do believe level shows up somewhere in the formula, though it may just be a tiebreaker.
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Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 03:43 AM #41 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Slith - level 18, dex 7, quick action 5, gymnastics 1. Neph: level 25, dex 4, quick action 4 (when I first asked, it was 2), gymnastics 5.

Hah - checking their traits right now. I was wondering why the Neph was so far ahead of the rest of the party, and so much more frail - I forgot to set Elite Warrior and Divine Touched on him.

Lilith Lilith

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 07:08 AM #42 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

It's the Gymnastics that's the culprit. Gymnastics seems to have a much larger effect on turn order per point than Dexterity or Quick Action.

Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 12:44 PM #43 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

I've got 4 int and 9 pole arms on my Slith, but I can't put any points into Anatomy. I think those are "natural" points as a result of the Elite Warrior trait - did they have to be properly trained / skill pointed? The Neph has 9 points in Melee and 4 in Int, and he's getting anatomy just fine.

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 01:00 PM #44 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Yes, points from traits/races/items do not count toward unlocking hidden skills.  (Points from trainers, and from regular skill point use, DO count.)
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 07:41 PM #45 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

IIRC, you still want to get Dispel Barrier to level 3.

Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:25 PM #46 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Can you create Knowledge brews / elixirs or Wisdom Crystals in this one (or rather, get a late-game alchemist to do so)? Seems like they would be more useful than in the remakes. Kinda getting the feeling that I answered my own question, and have been lugging around dozens of Graymolds and Mandrake roots for nothing.

Lilith Lilith

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:38 PM #47 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

View PostXander77, on 10 September 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Can you create Knowledge brews / elixirs or Wisdom Crystals in this one (or rather, get a late-game alchemist to do so)? Seems like they would be more useful than in the remakes. Kinda getting the feeling that I answered my own question, and have been lugging around dozens of Graymolds and Mandrake roots for nothing.

There is someone who will make knowledge brews for you, but you probably won't reach them until quite close to the end of the game:

Spoiler

Also, be warned that energetic herbs are about as rare as mandrake overall -- you see more energetic herbs early in the game, but more mandrake late in the game -- so if you want to save up as many herbs as possible for knowledge brews you should be saving those too.

Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 11:47 PM #48 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Huh. Good to know. Can I get there the moment I get the boat, or do I have to wait until more plot gates open?
I haven't used up a single herb of any kind, including healing, hoping this was the case.
...
Oh, apparently the advanced skills don't stop at 10 here, though the costs scale of course. Any skills I should just keep pumping until I run out of levels / points?

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 03:06 AM #49 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

View PostXander77, on 10 September 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

Oh, apparently the advanced skills don't stop at 10 here, though the costs scale of course. Any skills I should just keep pumping until I run out of levels / points?

It's hard to go too far wrong just by pumping Strength, Blademaster and the appropriate weapon skill for fighters or Spellcraft and the appropriate casting skill for casters, putting occasional points in Intelligence for casters and Endurance and Hardiness for everyone as needed. Fighters also want lots of Parry and 10 points in Quick Action, and if they're going to dual-wield you should get them around 6 points in Dual Wielding, pushing that up to 10 in the late game. Quick Strike can also be good as a late-game investment, especially once you already have either an action point boost or a few points in it from equipment. The links in the Strategy Central thread for A6 contain more detailed analysis of the value of specific skills if you want.

Xander77 Xander77

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 10:41 AM #50 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Fighting in the Formello Arena. The Slith chief doesn't care to fight us - "the other sliths are dubious of this line of reasoning, but don't care to argue. He is called "the impaler" for a reason". Ok. We get him to fight us... "the other siths are dubious..." - what the hell. This isn't some obscure sidequest, that's one of the major unavoidable confrontations in the main game.

Just out of interest, could the Nephil prisoner survive the arena? Would that have changed anything?

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 11:48 AM #51 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Ah, the illusion of choice.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 12:21 PM #52 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

View PostSlartibus, on 18 September 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Ah, the illusion of choice.
Umm. One of us misunderstood the other. I'm talking the slith reacting dubiously to whatisname the Impalers reluctance to fight us... as he jumps into the arena to fight us.

Anyone got a handy formula for weapon damage - base damage vs wielder strength and blademaster / whatever bonuses? Apparently a Cryos spear (11-33 damage + misc bonuses) is waaaaaaaay better than a Slith Bloodspear (17-68 + bonuses). I mean, the weapon price probably doesn't mean much (makes me nostalgic for The Witcher 2, which is the one RPG where item price was an exceptionally good indicator of relative quality) but still.




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