Jump to content


A6 - Changes from the earlier games


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic
Randomizer Randomizer

Tormented Battle Mage

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 4,341
  • 15,913 posts

Posted 19 November 2009 - 11:53 PM #1 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

There are a few changes in Avernum 6 from the earlier games:

Spells have changed.

Augmentation and all spells that raise health points are gone.  You need to increase endurance to increase health, but you now get more health from the start with each level of endurance.  Figure on 8 endurance for normal difficulty and 10 for torment level (unless you have low armor).

Essence shield and essence armor are now only as potions.

Haste is done like Geneforge 5 in that you have a one third chance per round of reducing action point cost to 5 from 9.  Speed items (speed potion/elixir, Gremlim wine, speed burst scroll, and rod of alacrity) increase your actions points to 13 adjusted by encumberance.

Mage cloak spells increase damage.  Curses cause poison or weaken opponets, bolts increase missle damage, blades increase melee attack damage, arcane increases spell damage.

Priest wards protect against a damage type.

Priest spell divine retribution now does magical energy damage instead of fire.

The mage unlock spell is gone.  You need to have tool use to unlock doors and containers.  

The Tinker's Crystal increases you effective tool use (TU) for unlocking things except traps.  For a character with no TU a crystal will open a TU 10 door and with some TU you can open TU 20 doors.

Dual wielding is back.  The damage per strike is less than with sword and shield, but those extra attacks add up.  With enough quick action and a speed item in effect you can get up to 8 swings per round.

Magery skill has been replaced with Dual Wielding.  Still with divine touch trait, trainer, and items you can with a few skill points get Spellcraft up around 30.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

Ephesos Ephesos

A God in Mote's Eye

  • Moderator
    • Member ID: 2,749
  • 6,157 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 10:36 AM #2 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Dual wielding is back. The damage per strike is less than with sword and shield, but those extra attacks add up. With enough quick action and a speed item in effect you can get up to 8 swings per round.

Careful, this also means you can get riposted up to 8 swings per round. tongue

Lilith Lilith

in before the apocalypse

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 669
  • 19,845 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:27 PM #3 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

I'm pretty sure that riposte damage is proportional to the damage your attack would have dealt, so being riposted on a lot of little attacks isn't actually worse than being riposted on a few big ones.

Earth Empires Earth Empires

Heart of Avadon

  • Member
    • Member ID: 4,661
  • 4,211 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:51 PM #4 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

No augmentation? That means health potions are in heavy use during boss-fights.

Ephesos Ephesos

A God in Mote's Eye

  • Moderator
    • Member ID: 2,749
  • 6,157 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:25 PM #5 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
I'm pretty sure that riposte damage is proportional to the damage your attack would have dealt, so being riposted on a lot of little attacks isn't actually worse than being riposted on a few big ones.

It may not hurt my health much, but it certainly hurts my pride.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:37 PM #6 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Interesting.  I sense research to be done.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Lilith Lilith

in before the apocalypse

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 669
  • 19,845 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:53 PM #7 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Well, I say that because I know it's definitely proportional in BoA. I don't know for sure about A4-6.

Randomizer Randomizer

Tormented Battle Mage

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 4,341
  • 15,913 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 06:03 PM #8 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

I forgot a few other changes:

Monsters slowly repopulate most places.  Really irritating having to keep killing chitrachs or worse the spraying plants.

Wands do more damage.  A wand of inferno actually is very useful now.  The downside is the AI targets the last attacker so be careful about area effect attacks.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:08 PM #9 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

INFINITE CHITRACHS?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Zummi Zummi

Hand of Avadon

  • Member
    • Member ID: 4,611
  • 1,191 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:31 PM #10 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

hey, do those respawned monsters still give XP
There are three kinds of people: the one who sees the glass half full; the one who sees the glass half empty; and the one who drinks the darn glass.

Ephesos Ephesos

A God in Mote's Eye

  • Moderator
    • Member ID: 2,749
  • 6,157 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:36 PM #11 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Yes they do. This was intentional.

Dantius Dantius

NO.

  • Member
    • Member ID: 6,624
  • 3,775 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:39 PM #12 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

All designers that incorporate infinite monster spawn points with no means of disabling them, just included for the hell of it, are terrible, terrible, people.  Jeff gets this one free pass, and that's it.  Beyond that...
Oh yes, what a useful recommendation for my candidacy.  "Likes to drive dangerous machines, very fast."

-Sheev

Zummi Zummi

Hand of Avadon

  • Member
    • Member ID: 4,611
  • 1,191 posts

Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:45 PM #13 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

so a singleton can farm an area. kewl
There are three kinds of people: the one who sees the glass half full; the one who sees the glass half empty; and the one who drinks the darn glass.

Lilith Lilith

in before the apocalypse

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 669
  • 19,845 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:49 PM #14 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Slarty: The Abridged Series
INFINITE CHITRACHS?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

and the worst part is you still have to count them all

it's like spilling a bag of millet seeds in front of a vampire

Student of Trinity Student of Trinity

Interloper

  • Member
    • Member ID: 2,306
  • 6,622 posts
  • Locationthe big Hilbert space

Posted 21 November 2009 - 12:17 AM #15 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Naw, it's not that bad.  The respawn populations are very low — one chitrach, for instance, in a place that once held dozens.  It's enough to sometimes be a bit of a nuisance, but it makes the world seem a little wilder — the chitrach lair doesn't become your personal underground parking garage just because you went through it once.  On the downside, farming is really not an option.  The respawn rate is just too low.
As long as entropy is doing what we want, we take it for granted, but as soon as it starts killing us, we go all whiny.

Randomizer Randomizer

Tormented Battle Mage

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 4,341
  • 15,913 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 12:46 AM #16 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Synergy did find a way to farm experience with the skribbane collection quest, but you have to keep going out and kill things to get money to do it.

Most collection quests don't decrease in experience as you gain levels.  They just don't give you that much for each item.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

Only Game Only Game

Alorael

  • Administrator
    • Member ID: 276
  • 22,118 posts
  • LocationElsewhere

Posted 21 November 2009 - 02:55 AM #17 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

After having gotten killed by a random enemy that respawned in the wilderness while triumphantly dragging my nearly-dead party from its most recent hard-fought victory, I have to say that this is a good change.

Really.

—Alorael, who enjoys the uncertainty more than the constant availability of free and instant healing anytime you turn around and head to a town.

Student of Trinity Student of Trinity

Interloper

  • Member
    • Member ID: 2,306
  • 6,622 posts
  • Locationthe big Hilbert space

Posted 21 November 2009 - 04:36 AM #18 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

I believe I can claim some credit for getting wands majorly pumped, though the fact that Jeff did this right after I complained probably indicates that lots of other people had complained, too.  I did mention 'Wand of Forty-Watt Bulb' and 'Wand of Wasting 5 AP' in connection with Inferno and Sparkling, though, despite their high value and placement in major dungeons; so I hope my forceful words had some tipping point value.  Truly wands used to suck.  Now, not so much.  Fiery wands and Ice Bolt scrolls naturally are kind of small bore by midgame, but they still serve a purpose in pinging attacks.  The other wands are all useful right through, though.  A Wand of Death, in particular, is probably the single strongest attack you can make in the game, normally doing well over 100 damage.
As long as entropy is doing what we want, we take it for granted, but as soon as it starts killing us, we go all whiny.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:57 AM #19 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Randomizer
Most collection quests don't decrease in experience as you gain levels.  They just don't give you that much for each item.
Really?  Ugh.  Since everything else decreases in XP as you gain levels, that means the best thing to do is hold onto all those items for the entire game, then use them at the end.  Sigh
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Earth Empires Earth Empires

Heart of Avadon

  • Member
    • Member ID: 4,661
  • 4,211 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 01:48 PM #20 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Dantius
All designers that incorporate infinite monster spawn points with no means of disabling them, just included for the hell of it, are terrible, terrible, people.  Jeff gets this one free pass, and that's it.  Beyond that...  

A4 had 1 respawn area at that wineyard but experience gotten wasn't much (it took long time to get 4th char to same level as others before going on Final Mission) and respawn rate was maybe once every 15 mins.

Agitproprioception Agitproprioception

The Demon of Good Taste

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 223
  • 13,777 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 03:22 PM #21 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

A4 didn't have any respawning, did it?
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

Locmaar Locmaar

Sorcerer

  • Member
    • Member ID: 4,436
  • 599 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 03:37 PM #22 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Slarty: The Abridged Series
INFINITE CHITRACHS?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

When I met the first chitrach in the Eastern Gallery that was pretty much what I thought. Luckily, I met less than fifty chitrachs in the entire game, some of which were even summoned. You don't have to go there, if you don't want to.
I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae -
a han noston ned 'wilith.

Randomizer Randomizer

Tormented Battle Mage

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 4,341
  • 15,913 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 04:52 PM #23 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Jeff really should have had a character down in the chitrach tunnels below the Eastern Gallery taking a census.  smile

I hated respawning because there are a few areas around Formello where you have a long trip back to recharge and you have to fight a slith or two on almost every trip.

I don't even want to think about the ones that spawn at the gates of Formello.  Those one really slow down looting.  It took forever to get past them to get to that knowledge elixir and the invulnerable potion.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

Monroe Monroe

Shaman

  • Member
    • Member ID: 6,468
  • 285 posts

Posted 21 November 2009 - 07:02 PM #24 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Nullbuggery
A4 didn't have any respawning, did it?
There was an area out by Fort Kriszan that had them respawning slimes.  That'd be the only place I can recall.
"he just crumpled up like the tutorial rats" -elchipeo

Toby-Linn Toby-Linn

Hand of Avadon

  • Moderator
    • Member ID: 5,560
  • 1,096 posts

Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:39 AM #25 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Monroe
Originally Posted By: Nullbuggery
A4 didn't have any respawning, did it?
There was an area out by Fort Kriszan that had them respawning slimes.  That'd be the only place I can recall.

There was also the orchard by Camp Samuels where the slimes respawned....I hated that section, I always had to fight them everytime I walked by.
We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us / A man chooses, a slave obeys. (Andrew Ryan - Bioshock)

Xbox Live - TobyLinn81 ~ Tumblr ~ deviantART ~ Facebook ~ Twitter

Student of Trinity Student of Trinity

Interloper

  • Member
    • Member ID: 2,306
  • 6,622 posts
  • Locationthe big Hilbert space

Posted 22 November 2009 - 08:16 AM #26 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

I also hated the respawning lone guards and such in the slith lands, but at least they did remind me that I was in enemy territory.  Probably larger respawns less frequently would have been more realistic, but that might also have been more tedious.

I gave up trying to re-take Formello when I realized guards were respawning fast.  I guess I should have gone back and fought through, since most of the garrison doesn't respawn.
As long as entropy is doing what we want, we take it for granted, but as soon as it starts killing us, we go all whiny.

Earth Empires Earth Empires

Heart of Avadon

  • Member
    • Member ID: 4,661
  • 4,211 posts

Posted 22 November 2009 - 11:33 AM #27 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Originally Posted By: Toby-Linn

There was also the orchard by Camp Samuels where the slimes respawned....I hated that section, I always had to fight them everytime I walked by.  

Yeah but those slimes were easy to kill especially at near endgame.

Only 2-3 experience got by char so not that much.

Monroe Monroe

Shaman

  • Member
    • Member ID: 6,468
  • 285 posts

Posted 22 November 2009 - 12:17 PM #28 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Camp Samuels, yes, that's the one I meant to say, I do believe.
"he just crumpled up like the tutorial rats" -elchipeo

madrigan madrigan

Shadowwalker

  • Member
    • Member ID: 5,608
  • 499 posts

Posted 23 November 2009 - 09:06 AM #29 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

There was a chitrach respawn in A4. It was in a tunnel under the Great Cave, you went through there to get to the island with the Slith cultists challenge area. I think it's the one where they are sacrificing a human as you arrive.

Anyway, every time you passed a certain junction on the way back, a chitrach ran out. It caused just the sort of problem being discussed here in A6. I would be dragging my still conscious character back to the Castle and would have to run from this chitrach. Also, if I retreated in order to recharge and go back to the challenge area, I would have to spend resources fighting the chitrach on the way back. It was very annoying.

Anyway, I am very early in the new game, I just now got into Almaria. All the changes described in the original post here sound terrible, and are the kinds of things that make Geneforge less enjoyable for me than Avernum, but I was enjoying the game before I read the post so I guess I'll just keep enjoying it.

The Knight Who Said Ni The Knight Who Said Ni

Soldier

  • Member
    • Member ID: 5,766
  • 117 posts

Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:05 AM #30 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Well around say, the bridge to Fort Monastery, one slith respawns every time. And he always riposites one of my attacks. So yes, they get annoying in Slithlyvannia.

-Ni.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
        Albert Einstein

Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
Douglas Adams

Do you like the original Exile series? Yes? Good. That means your life will be spared in the Indie Games Armageddon.

Meri20098 Meri20098

Soldier

  • Member
    • Member ID: 11,570
  • 112 posts

Posted 10 February 2015 - 08:37 PM #31 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Do you eventually die if you don't have any food? That would be nuts! I remember when I fir started A6 and got a line of text "you have no food and are very hungry. You will be less effective in combat" I freaked because I didn't want to die from lack of food. I made a god party with the editor pinned at the top of the forum

Lilith Lilith

in before the apocalypse

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 669
  • 19,845 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:15 PM #32 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

View PostMeri20098, on 10 February 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

Do you eventually die if you don't have any food? That would be nuts! I remember when I fir started A6 and got a line of text "you have no food and are very hungry. You will be less effective in combat" I freaked because I didn't want to die from lack of food. I made a god party with the editor pinned at the top of the forum

As far as I know, you can't starve to death in Avernum 6, and food's generally not too hard to come by as long as you hold on to every piece you find.

Randomizer Randomizer

Tormented Battle Mage

  • Global Moderator
    • Member ID: 4,341
  • 15,913 posts

Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:25 PM #33 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

There are places in the Great Cave where you can get more food if you ask for it.
"I don't know how we can ever repay you!" - Rescued damsel in distress
"Oh, I'm sure we can think of something .... How much gold do you have?" - "Hero"

"We're all screwed if Cthulhu shows up. Try to enjoy life in the meantime." - Adam Rawnsley

Sss-Chah Sss-Chah

Shaman

  • Member
    • Member ID: 5,024
  • 301 posts

Posted 31 August 2015 - 09:53 AM #34 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

dying from lack of food is one thing I hated about the exile series.

Xander77 Xander77

Citizen

  • Member
    • Member ID: 7,747
  • 46 posts

Posted 08 September 2015 - 02:09 AM #35 A6 - Changes from the earlier games

Question: I'm coming into this from the remakes (Avernum: Subtitle) where you could only buy two levels of spell training (or 1 if you already knew the spell at character creation) + 1 level from a book. Here you can buy 3 levels AND one from a book (though not for all spells, apparently). Do they all stack, or does the book level replace one of the training levels?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users